Eckhart Tolle famously quipped, “It is impossible for anyone to act beyond their current level of consciousness.” Like a clock wound to move in a certain direction, people tend to continue down the same path indefinitely, due to their upbringing, personality, and experiences. When that path is wise and wholesome, the process is known as a “virtuous cycle.” On the other hand, when that path is ill-advised or misguided, the process is known as a “vicious cycle.” People entrapped in vicious cycles exhibit no inkling or ability to change, barring some transformative life experience. Like Saul on the road to Damascus, they may reach a point where a compelling, grace-filled experience is the only thing that can alter their life for the better.

This week, I reached out to my friend and Campus Pastor at Garden City Church, Gabriel Rodriguez. Gabriel was born in Caracas, Venezuela, and moved to New Jersey at 9 years old, overstaying a tourist visa on a trip to visit his father. Gabriel’s childhood, ridden with trauma, fear, and bad influences, led him down a delinquent path of drugs, crime, and violence. However, one day, while in a Central Ohio jail, just moments away from being deported and separated from his son, Gabriel said a prayer that would change the course of his life.

The following is the account of a live 3-hour interview conducted in person. I hope you find Gabriel’s story as raw, fascinating, and inspirational as I did. You can find him on Instagram @GabrielN_Rodriguez

[For more, see the complete archive of interviews.]

Tell the people about yourself.

My name is Gabriel Rodriguez. I’m 32 years old. I’m originally from Caracas, Venezuela. Both of my parents are Venezuelan. I came to the US in December of 1999. I have three kids. My oldest, Gabriel Romeo, is 15 years old. My second oldest, David Miguel, is 13 years old. And my youngest, Grace Valerie Joy, is 8 months.

I currently work for CoverMyMeds as an Account Coordinator. There is a process called prior authorization for people trying to get their medication covered by insurance. We are basically the middlemen who make sure the pharmacy, the doctor, and the insurance company are handling their side of the paperwork. I volunteer as the Campus Pastor for my church, Garden City Church. One of my main roles it to offer pastoral support to the youth, young adults, family ministry, and Sunday volunteers.

What was Venezuela like growing up?

The first thing that comes to mind is the weather. We didn’t get snow in Venezuela where I lived. You would never really see people wearing jackets. I remember my mom and dad had a good-sized apartment with four bedrooms, a kitchen, and two restrooms. I believe we lived on the 19^th floor. I remember there was a lot of traffic. I remember traveling in the city to my grandparents’ house, mostly by train. We would also sometimes take the bus.

There was this big plaza in the city. People would just go and sit and there were stores around—people selling churros and ice cream cones. It was a pretty city. Just thinking about the people and the community brings me joy.

How was your family dynamic?

I have very few memories of us all—me, my two brothers, mom, and dad—in the same house or in the same room doing the same activity. During those years, it was normal for my dad to be gone on business trips to the US, Brazil, or other parts of Venezuela. My parents’ relationship was shaky at times. I remember times where they would argue. I think the main reason was money-related. I remember my mom would go out partying or hanging out with friends, and she would leave me at the house by myself and leave my brother at my grandparents’. Eventually, my mom started dating somebody else, and my dad got word of it in the US. At that point, the separation happened, and I believe that’s when my dad decided to stay in New Jersey.

I dealt with a lot of fear when I was little—fear of the dark, fear of being alone, fear of ghosts. My house would get pretty dark and I would not leave my room because I was afraid. I remember being home for hours and hours by myself. We had a chair in the apartment right next to the door. When you got out of the apartment, there was a big hallway with doors to other apartments on the same floor. And I would just in that chair with the door open, crying and looking at the elevator, hoping that my mom would come home. I don’t know if I thought that crying would make her come back sooner, but I just remember this fear of being by myself. 

There were times my mom would drop me off at my grandma’s house, which was her mom’s house. We had like five aunts that lived there—all my mom’s sisters—along with their kids. My brother Israel, who was a year and a half older than me, lived there for a large part of his childhood and basically grew up there. In fact, all of my three brothers grew up at different grandparents’ houses. I was the only one who grew up with my parents. And so I always felt like the outsider when I went to visit my grandma’s house.

I don’t know if they were necessarily treating me like an outsider. Maybe it had to do with how I was acting. I would cry for my mom. I used to pee the bed. So I don’t know if it was what I did that upset them and made me feel like I was rejected. Or if I was rejected from the outset and that made me act the way I did. One good thing I can say about being at my grandma’s house is that I wasn’t alone.

It sounds like you had a really tough childhood.

When you say that, I think of people who had a really tough childhood and mine doesn’t sound so bad. But then I can compare myself to other people who had very good ones, and I think mine wasn’t so great. So I think I’m somewhere in the middle in the sense that it wasn’t a normal childhood, but it also wasn’t the worst childhood either.

Your dad settled in New Jersey, and you eventually went to live with him. How did that happen?

When me and my brother came to the US, it was for vacation. It was like a Christmas gift. We came on December 25, 1999. The plan was to only be here for a month. We were going to spend a week or two in New Jersey, four days in San Francisco, then spend the rest of the time in New Jersey. It was an exciting time. Before the trip, I remember me and Israel sitting on the balcony where my grandma used to live watching airplanes and dreaming about what it would be like in the US. We didn’t have a picture of America like I feel other nationalities have. I think we just thought about snow. As kids, we were excited to travel in an airplane and see the snow.

Nobody knew this, but in the back of my mind, I was excited to go to the US because I knew I wasn’t going to be alone the whole time. I knew I wouldn’t be left at my house by myself. I knew I wouldn’t be crying for my mom or dad to come. I knew my brother was always going to be there with me. My brother was the guy, if I ever needed anything. There was a release of peace and joy that I didn’t have to be afraid anymore.

We flew by ourselves. I think I was nine and my brother was ten. During the flight, the flight attendants came to us and asked us if we wanted to fly the plane. They brought us into the cabin where the pilots were and they let us sit on the seats next to the pilot. They basically just said, “Don’t touch anything.” It was a really cool experience. The airplane landed in New York but we were staying in New Jersey.

What was it like when you got there? 

My dad was renting a room in a house. The houses in New Jersey were like three floors, and each floor was like a whole ‘nother apartment. There was one queen bed and two twin mattresses on the floor. Sometimes we would hang out in the room or go to the backyard. But usually we went with my dad to the office where he was working. We did touristy stuff. We visited Manhattan. We got on ferries. We made friends. It was a good time. In San Francisco, the streets were like mountains — high and deep and all of that. I remember seeing transgender people for the first time. And then there’s this soup in San Francisco where the bowl is made of bread.

It was time to go back, and in that whole month we never saw snow. Literally, tomorrow we’re going back. And on the forecast, it said it was going to snow on the day that we’re leaving. We came to America to see snow. We’re like “We’re so close. We have to stay tomorrow to see the snow.” So basically we just begged my dad to stay so we can see the snow. The idea was “Okay, you guys can stay. I’ll pay for the fee for missing the flight. And then you guys can go back.”

We saw snow. We liked it. We played with it. I think we went sledding. And we just decided that we liked it in the US and wanted to stay. At this time, my parents were going through a divorce. In the back of my mind—and I didn’t tell my brother this—but the thought in the back of my mind was, “I don’t want to go back to Venezuela and be alone.” So my dad said, “Call your mom. And if she’s okay with it, you can stay.” We called our mom and told her “We want to stay here.” My mom was a teacher. She appreciated education. One of the things we told my mom was that the schools were great. I remember telling her that the books and education were free. And my mom was okay with it.

So you guys overstayed your visa.

Yes—we were only supposed to be here for thirty days. But it was probably God’s grace, to be honest. Eventually, my mom came back to the Lord and got serious with God. I didn’t tell you this, but my dad was a pastor in Venezuela before moving to the US. I grew up as a Christian. My mom and dad were Christian. Who knows if us being there would have made it harder for her to come back to the Lord. The pressure of having two kids. The shame, the disappointment, having to hide, having to deal with an emotional child who is now seeing his mom in a new relationship.

Looking back, everything that happened was very unreasonable. For my brother to want to stay in the US to live in one small room when he had a good life back in Venezuela. He loved his family back home. That wasn’t my case. I didn’t have a family back home that I loved. All I had were my brothers and parents, who I never saw. And for my mom to have been able to say, “Yes.” The reason I think it had to be God is because her ending was better. If her ending was worse, then I couldn’t go back and look at all these little things that happened and say, “That was God,” because her ending was worse. But the fact that her ending was better has to make me think that there was a purpose for all these areas that had a question mark, with the question, “Why did this unreasonable thing happen?”

What was your experience like in school?

In New Jerseys the schools are by numbers. They have names, but they also have numbers. So school number three, school number six, etc. I think we went to school three or four our first year. The cool part about New Jersey is that there are so many Spanish people that every single grade is divided into “bilinguals” and “regulars.” The bilingual class is the class they would speak both English and Spanish, but mostly Spanish. So it was mostly for kids who didn’t know English and needed help with that transition. Many of our books were in Spanish, and some were in English. In the regular class, they just spoke English.

There was always bullying from the regular students to the bilingual students. They always felt better than us. So I experienced a good amount of bullying. They got it back from me eventually, but it affected me for sure. You feel the rejection. You feel less than. You feel like you didn’t receive the same treatment as everybody else. And you eventually start looking down on yourself.

I moved to Ohio when I was 15. During my 6 years in New Jersey, I didn’t learn any English. None. Zero. I don’t know how I ever passed the part in English—they probably just didn’t want to fail me, but there was enough in Spanish that I could get by. I had no structure of studying or doing homework. I think I remember studying one time my entire childhood. I remember failing spelling test after spelling test after spelling test, but they still passed me. And then I failed 6^th grade. After I failed 6^th grade, I was hurt that my friends moved on and I got left behind, but I had no distractions. I was so motivated I made the honor roll. It was never that I wasn’t smart, but I didn’t have any focus or structure.  

What prompted you to learn English in Ohio?

No one spoke Spanish in Ohio. In New Jersey, everyone spoke Spanish. The stores, the buses, the teachers, the police, the firefighters, little league baseball, soccer— all the kids and all the parents in my world spoke Spanish. So I had to learn English to survive. I would be in the classroom lost, not knowing what they were saying. During the first year, I started dating a girl, and I think it really helped me get more comfortable speaking the language. By my second year in Ohio, people were telling me my English was getting better and I was losing my accent.

Back to New Jersey. I know you started getting into trouble from a young age.

I was probably 12 or 13 in New Jersey. Like I said, between bilingual and regulars, there was always that bullying, that tension. Here and there, there would be fights between these two groups. Even if they weren’t part of an organized group, you would know it was a bilingual fighting somebody from a regular class.

Eventually, we got this guy who was new at the school. His name was Frank. He was short and stocky. On the first day of school, he came wearing a yellow shit, and on top of it was a green shirt, with a bandana. He was a bilingual, so he was a part of our group. He heard that someone from the regular class was making fun of his clothing. Frank said, “Okay, we’re going to fight after school.” We had never seen this. It was just so unusual for us. We were like, “This dude is crazy.”

And so we all meet up after school, and they got into a fight and Frank beat him up. That was cool, because it was like a good record for the bilingual class. And Frank was loyal. Frank was going to stick with his people that he started with. So after a while, he started becoming very popular because he would fight anybody, and he was a good fighter. So he started gaining respect, and people wanted to be a part of his group. So basically from the first day of Frank’s class, he taught us that you need to gain people’s respect by fighting.

And from that day on, that was everybody’s response to everything. Our group response was, “You look at me the wrong way, you say the wrong thing, and we’re just going to fight.” And so I learned that respect was based on fear. And so it wasn’t too long after that, we had a small group of people, just a handful of us—my brother, a guy that we call our cousin, Frank, and Frank’s older brother. We would just sit outside my friend’s house by the stairs and hang out every day. And one day, we just decided we should make a gang. We were going to put a name on it and be an organized gang. Everybody else was going to know that this was our gang.

Were there specific gang activities you participated in? 

We didn’t do a whole lot, but we went to parties together. We all wore black at times and took pictures. At one point, we started doing graffiti. There was a big gang in West New York. And that big gang was on Street 60. And so the name of the gang was 60^th. Probably everybody in that gang was a regular. But one day we thought, “We’re in a gang. We need to make ourselves noticeable to people.” So me and another friend rode our bikes to the high school. There was like a bridge in the high school from one building to another, and under the bridge everybody hanged out there for lunch. And so me and my boy drove our bicycles over to that bridge, and on that wall where everybody hanged out we wrote Eff 60^th, but like the full word F. And we put the name of our gang on the bottom of that.

By the next day everybody knew there was another gang out there that is dissing this big gang. And that just started fights. Eventually, stuff got crazy, but at the beginning—we were young—it was just fistfights. This was all in New Jersey. And we were anywhere from 13 to 15. Right after we moved to Ohio, literally a couple months later, we started hearing stories about people getting stabbed. Big fights with baseball bats. Guns. Machetes. Crazy stuff started to happen. Drug dealing. 

It sounds like you got out just in the nick of time. What informed the decision to move?

My dad moved us to Ohio because he knew me and my brother were getting into a lot of trouble. Eventually, we started drinking, getting into more fights, etc. The Ohio option came because my brother used to go visit there. He fell in love with some girl, and he told my dad that Ohio was great. Based on all the trouble we were getting into in New Jersey, my dad said, “We should probably move to Ohio, and take these kids out of this crazy place, because they’re either going to go to jail or end up dead.”

He was right. We probably would have been dead or in jail. I think I eventually would have killed someone or they would have killed me. Not because I was a big dawg, but just because of that environment and the pressure of just being there.

Did things get better in Ohio?

No, they didn’t. A lot of my main crew, like Frank, came to move with me. Frank’s dad lived in Ohio. When my people found out we were moving, they decided to move, too. And other friends from New Jersey would visit. In New Jersey, I would walk six blocks down to my friend’s house and party every weekend. When we moved to Ohio and Ohio doesn’t have freaking sidewalks, it was like, “Man, this place is crazy!” I automatically thought, “If I’m going to have any fun in Ohio, I need to have a fake ID.” Because, to my understanding, the only fun thing to do was go to clubs. I didn’t know enough people to go to parties or anything like that. So I got a fake ID, and I started hanging out with an older crew.

Car racing was our big thing. And eventually we got into car theft, like taking the whole vehicle. We all owned Hondas or Acuras. I got my first car at 16. We would go steal other Hondas or Acuras to take the parts of the car—rims, seats, engines, transmissions, bumpers. Anything we felt like we wanted to take for our cars. One time I stole an Acura that had leather seats, and I took the leathers seats and put them on my Honda. Another time, I saw a Honda with rims that I liked, so I stole the car and took the rims. We would drive the stolen car to an apartment complex, find an empty garage space, take the rims off, and leave the car. Eventually, they would find the car without the rims.

I would break into cars every week. Steal the radios. Steal the speakers. I was still 16 at the time. I would have a new radio for my car weekly or biweekly. I would change it because I got bored of it or I found a cooler one. I would have 5, 10, 15 radios in my trunk at a time. Everything I didn’t use I would sell—speakers, radios, rims, etc.

What about school? It doesn’t sound like you were an A student.

In high school, I would skip school all the time. Since my dad didn’t know English, I would be the one that had to fill out all the paperwork for the school, and I would put my email and phone number. And so any time the school wanted to contact my dad, they would actually be contacting me. I remember there was a month I literally went to school for two days. So what I did not to fail was fake doctor notes. And I would just make up all the work on my own time.

Somehow, I found a way to pass, but I eventually dropped out. I was 17 or 18. And I continued to live that lifestyle. Partying, drinking, drugs—mostly just weed. I eventually came to realize that the group we were hanging out with in Ohio was big into drugs. By the grace of God, I never got too fully into it even though we had the resources. But my brother did. I’m talking about blocks of cocaine. I remember seeing big blocks of cocaine.

I remember one time we opened a block of cocaine that was branded by the cartel. And the brand that this block of cocaine had was the sign of a lady’s restroom. I remember looking at it and thinking, “Man, I didn’t know that the cartels brand their blocks of cocaine.” I remember looking at big bags of Crystal Meth and me not knowing what they were. They said, “Don’t touch it with your bare hands because it can get you so high it’ll kill you.” And there were these big black bags with pounds and pounds of weed.

Where was your dad during all of this?

I was living with my dad, so I didn’t have to pay rent. My dad was a cool dad, but there was no life structure. There was nobody sitting down with me giving me any life advice about careers, the future, wise decisions. My dad was busy with his own life. He was a salesman. That’s not an easy job. He had his own struggles trying to provide for us. I think he felt bad that we didn’t have a mother who was there to raise us because he mentioned it a few times. 

I met you 13 years ago at a church. You were 18 or 19 at the time. How did you end up at a church of all places?

I hit bottom when my dad had a stroke in 2008. For me, my dad was basically my world. I loved my dad. That’s basically when I became homeless. That’s when I got hooked on weed. Not like an addiction, but just an escape. I started smoking weed every day, literally all day long. We would go to bed high and my friend would literally wake me up with a blunt in his hand. I’m not going to lie, it was amazing. I remember thinking back on that time, “Wow, that was amazing.” He would already smoke half of it and was like, “Here’s your half.”

My dad had to spend many weeks in the hospital and learn how to walk again, talk again, and just do life. I don’t remember if we got kicked out of my dad’s apartment or I thought, “I can’t stay there by myself.” I was still afraid of darkness, afraid of being alone, from my childhood. So I would just crash at people’s houses. At one point, I was living in an attic on Sullivant on the West Side. One weekend, I threw a party at that house, and some money got stolen from the owner of the house, and then I got kicked out. I slept in my car a few times and just crashed at friends’ houses. And then I lost the car, too, because I wasted the money my dad and I had saved up and couldn’t make the payments.

For a time, the mother of my boys let me stay at their place. I don’t remember how long I lived there. I walked everywhere. I didn’t really have a consistent base of food. I was still getting high. I actually got enrolled back in high school. And I started going back to school, but it just wasn’t the same—who I used to be in high school before and who I was now. And so I dropped out again. I dropped out of high school two times. But the second time, I think not having a car was also a factor. I had to walk two miles there and two miles back. And being an illegal immigrant, I realized that it didn’t matter if I finished high school.

You felt that there would be no opportunity, and it didn’t matter whether you made wise decisions or not.

That’s why I was so happy when President Obama came out with the DREAM Act, because I remember I couldn’t even dream. I remember writing a letter to immigration that my lawyer asked me to write when I was applying. I remember telling them that most people dream about taking a vacation once a year. And they will plan it and think about what they want to do. And I was thinking, “I can never dream of taking a vacation, because I can’t even pick the job I want.” As an illegal immigrant, you don’t plan your life. You take what is given to you. So if $15 an hour is all that is given to you, then that’s all you have.

Being undocumented for so long and with the crimes you were involved in, did you ever get in trouble with the law?

With my dad having a stroke, me being homeless and being on drugs every day, I eventually got caught by the police with three warrants. I was in a stolen vehicle with a minor. We were both drunk and high at the time. I was already 18. I think I had weed on us. And I gave the cop a fake name, because I knew I had three warrants. But they found out that I had given them a fake name, which was a whole ‘nother charge.

And so now I’m on my way to jail as an adult. And the first thing I do when I get there is pray. Like I said, my dad was a pastor and I grew up as a Christian. I didn’t have the connection that God and Jesus were the same. Or that Jesus was the Son of God, or anything like that. But I had some understanding that there was a God. One thing about jail is you automatically go into this stage of hopelessness. You’re in the cop car looking out the window, thinking, “Man, I just messed up. I don’t know when I’m going to see the outside world again.” You’re basically at the mercy of the law. You don’t know if your family knows that you’re there and if you’re ever going to be able to contact them. And time goes by very slow in jail.

So I’m in jail and I didn’t know when I was going to get out. On day four, I’m just sitting there and they call my name. Totally unexpected. I don’t know what’s happening with my case. I don’t know when I’m going to court. They call my name and hand me the clothes I had on the day I got arrested. They put me in this other room where people started getting released, and started getting back the possessions they had on them on the day they got arrested.

In the other room, everybody who was American was let out of the room. And they left all the Spanish people in the room. And so we immediately knew. They left all the Spanish people in the room because they were about to deport us. I remember everybody was just laughing, “They’re going to deport us. No big deal. I’ll jump the border as soon as they drop me off.” This whole time I’m thinking, “I came in an airplane. I did not jump a fence. I did not cross the desert. I’m from Venezuela. Mexico is far from Venezuela. And I’m too much of a coward to go through a desert. I’m never going to come back. If I get deported, I’m never going to come back.”

You hadn’t been to Venezuela in ten years, and here you are thinking you’re about to get deported.

I had one son. He was a year old. And I thought to myself, “I’m never going to see my son again.” And in that moment, I decided to pray. And with the weight of repentance, I did this next action. I had a hoodie with a big skeleton and a hat that I had stolen from a car. As a way of me saying, “I’m done with this lifestyle,” I took the hat off and I took the hoodie off, and I threw them on the floor. And I did all of this before praying. I didn’t know the Bible said anything about repenting. This was just an action that came naturally, “I’m done with this lifestyle.”

And I closed my eyes and I prayed. And my prayer was, “God, if you take me out of this place, I will stop trying to sell drugs. And I will be the father you want me to be.” As I was praying, as soon as I opened my eyes, I realized I spoke with someone. This never happened to me in my life. I told you I prayed immediately when I got to jail, but that was the first time that I prayed and I knew that I was talking to God. Like he heard me. Like me talking to you right now—I know you’re hearing me. It was even more real than talking to you. It couldn’t have been more than three minutes, bro. After that prayer, they opened the door, and they called my name: Gabriel Rodriguez!

What was going through your mind in that moment?

Based on the situation, based on the setting, my response should have been fear. I’m the first one to go out with immigration. But instead I just had peace. The officer took me out of the room. And as they’re handing me the belongings and the things I had in my pocket that day, the Sheriff says, “You’re a lucky guy.” I said, “Thank you, sir.” He said, “There’s a Hilliard police officer here to pick you up because you have court.” And so I realized there was a police officer right behind me who was from Hilliard. He wasn’t a Sheriff—he had a blue uniform on.

And the Sheriff asked the Hilliard cop, “Can you wait five more minutes? Immigration is running late.” The Hilliard cop tells the Sheriff, “No, the judge is waiting for him, and I need to take him.” So the cop takes me to Hilliard. I get to Hilliard. My brother and my dad are there. I call my attorney. I’m like, “I got court in Hilliard.” He said, “Tell the judge that you want your case transferred to Columbus. Once your case gets to Columbus, I’ll make sure it gets to a judge-friend of mine, and we’ll take care of it.”

I remember being scared because this dude doesn’t know that I almost got deported. I didn’t know what the judge was going to say. I let the court know I want my case transferred to Columbus, but I still had to appear. The judge asked me two questions: Do you go to school? And Do you work? I said “Yes” to both of them, and they were both a lie. I just dropped out of school a couple months before that and I just lost my job at Donatos because I was in jail for four days. So the judge looks at me after those answers, “What are you doing in my court? Get out of here.”

So hitting rock bottom and having that divine encounter in jail motivated you to make the change. Did your transformation take place instantly or was it a process?

As soon as I got out, I was still homeless. I lost my job. I had no money. I was the only one paying for the apartment where me and my dad were staying. I ended up moving in with my friend, who was a big drug dealer. That’s when I realized just how much drugs we had. Many times I was in rooms where we were counting thousands of dollars. The most I saw at once was $150,000. I was still using drugs, smoking weed, and drinking.

One night I used acid for the first time. During my trip, I found myself in a closet with all the lights off crying. I remember calling my brother telling him how I was feeling. After that trip and all of that, I’m like, “Okay, I need to get back to God.” I started becoming a better dad. My deal with God was “If you take me out of this place, I’ll become a better dad.”

So now I’m praying and asking for help, trying to figure out how to get my life together. I need a job. I need a car. I need to get out of this house because it’s full of drugs. Eventually, God provides a car. There was this guy who owed my dad like $300. He didn’t have the money to pay my dad, but he had a ’92 Ford. My dad was like, “Hey. I got a car. Do you want it?” I’m like “Absolutely! That’s an answered prayer.”

I had a friend who worked at CiCi’s pizza. I called her and she gave me a job. For the house, there was this apartment complex that was getting renewed because it was in a bad area. It had a bad rep to it. And it was giving this special where you get three months of rent for free with $100 deposit. That’s a deal. So we’re like “Okay.” So we thought, “By the fourth month by the time I have to pay rent, I’ll have enough money saved up to pay rent.” But I was working part-time at CiCi’s making $250 a week. It wasn’t enough for rent, just to keep the bills paid.

What happened after the 3-month promotion elapsed?

Things were tight, and so I still tried to hustle some illegal stuff. Illegal stuff never worked for me. One day, I come home from work, and my dad tells me, “Hey, the people from the apartment complex came and said that we owe $1500 worth of rent. They say if we don’t have it by tomorrow, we have three days to move out.”

As I’m getting ready to shower, I prayed, “God, if you take me out of this one, I will…” And I stop. I thought to myself, “God ain’t stupid. That’s the thing you said in jail. God did his part to get you out of jail, but you didn’t do your part. You tried to go back and hustle.”

I showered normally. There wasn’t anything magical about the moment. It wasn’t like jail where I felt like someone heard me. This time, I thought “Whether you take me out of this one or not, I’m going to try you fully.” In my mind, I had tried everything and nothing worked. And if God was not real and this didn’t work, then I’m still going to deal with the consequences of being kicked out. But if God is real and he answers my prayer, then he’s going to take me out of this one.

And so the next day came, and the guy from the apartment complex didn’t come to pick up the money. Three days later, and the guy hasn’t come to pick up the money. A week later, still no guy. A month passed, three months, six months, 12 months—we stayed in that apartment complex for 19 months for free! There weren’t people to do maintenance in the apartment — check the basement, check the air conditioning, stuff like that. But they never sent anyone to pick up the money. By week one after that prayer, I was like, “Okay God, I know you’re real, because this guy never came.”

So after the first week, I was already deciding what it was going to look like to try God fully. And that was, “Stop doing what is bad. Read your Bible. And go to church.” I remember calling my mom and saying, “Mom, I’m making this decision. I’m going to start reading the Bible, but I don’t understand it.” She said, “Don’t worry, I’m going to send you this Bible you can understand.” And then sent me a Spanish Bible with a simple translation. Kind of like the NIV. That was the beginning of me giving my life to God. I remember just praying in my room, telling him, “I’m going to stop drinking. I’m going to stop smoking. I’m going to stop partying and stealing.”

The hardest area for me was sexual. But I remember saying, “If you help me, I’ll do it.” Now I’m thinking, “I’m going to go to church. I’m going to try it fully. I’m going to stop doing all this stupid stuff.” A year or two ago, I had visited Potter’s House with the mother of my kids because my aunt went there. When I went back again, it was the first time where I’ve ever been in a church and felt, “This is home. This is where I need to be.”

How did your relationship with God grow?  

I got more involved in church and started experiencing God for myself. There was this hunger in me to show people that God was real, and it came from reading the Bible. It came from reading the Old Testament. I didn’t start in the New Testament. I started with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, Joseph, Ruth, Samson—those stories from the Old Testament that will increase your faith. There was something in me that just believed God for supernatural stuff. And there was something in me that wanted to show people that God was real.

You are a pastor at Garden City Church on the West Side of Columbus. How did you come into that role?

One of the first things I started doing was homeless ministry. I got involved with the Young Adult Ministry at Potter’s House. Then I got involved with the Youth Ministry. Eventually, I became an elder at Potter’s House. I must have been 29 or 30 years old. Then we started a Healing and Deliverance Ministry at Potter’s House, which is insane, because that wasn’t something Potter’s House really leaned into in the past. And we would have people come every Sunday to get demons cast out and prayer for healing. So we did that for about 6-9 months before Covid hit.

By that time, I’m married to my wife Kelcie. During Covid, we felt in our hearts that our friend, Pastor Gerald, needed to start a church. And we basically just told him, “If you ever start a church, we’ll move with you. We’ll go to your church.” In the summer of 2020, Pastor Gerald started Garden City Church. And I preached every Sunday during the first three months. 

Can you talk about your experience at the Dream Center?

In 2021, I started working for the Columbus Dream Center. The mission of the Family Ministry was to provide a space for kids to have lunch, do homework, get tutoring, and have Wi-Fi connection during Covid when the schools closed down. As Assistant Director of that division, part of my role was to provide spiritual insight to the leadership. And so I worked there for a year. And then I worked for Rock City Church for about 6 months with the prison ministry.

Finally, because of working for all these ministries—Potter’s House, Dream Center, Rock City Church—I didn’t have an official position at Garden City right away, because I didn’t know if I was going to stay. I had an offer to be the Young Adult Pastor at Potter’s House. Once I decided I’m going to stay at Garden City and I’m not going to work with these other churches, that’s when we started asking, “What role can Gabriel take at the church?” And that eventually led me to my current role as Campus Pastor, where I support the youth, young adults, family ministry, and church volunteers.

You have two teenage sons. Last year, you became a girl dad. How has being a father changed you?  

I honestly think that my life calling is to be a father. I think that God called me to serve my kids. Being a father is great. If it changed me, it made me more mature. I think about my kids daily. I have a strong desire to help them in life, to succeed in life, to give them everything that wasn’t provided to me, both in knowledge, presence, and material stuff — probably in that order. And also to provide them spiritual insight that wasn’t provided to me. And so I have a strong desire for my kids to know God. I love my kids.

Do you plan to go back to Venezuela to visit?

I don’t know. My mom passed away in October of last year. And I feel like I don’t have anything to go back to Venezuela for. I do have this sense that God has some type of calling on my life to Venezuela, but I don’t know what that is yet.

This is the rapid-fire round. I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few words or sentences.

Favorite hobby?

Video games.

Favorite city?

LA. Second to that, Chicago.

Favorite verse in the Bible?

Man, that changes. I’ll say the first one that my mom gave me. Joshua 1:8-9, which is “Keep this book of the law always on your lips. Meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or discouraged. For the Lord your God will be with you everywhere you go.”

Pet peeve?

Bad customer service and people with no common sense.

Hidden talent?

Sadly, I don’t know that I have one. I speak Spanish?

Ideal vacation? 

Los Angeles. Two weeks in Los Angeles or three. At a nice house in front of the beach with my wife and kids. And if I can bring Samson [his Yorkie] that would be cool.

Thing you are most proud of?

Having my kids with me now and all of my accomplishments in life. I shouldn’t be where I’m at in my life.

First word that comes to mind when you see pineapple on a pizza?

Gross.

What would you say to a younger version of yourself?

Believe in Jesus. Give your life to him.

Where do you envision yourself in 5 years?

That is hard for me to answer. It’s hard for me to answer because I’m in a place where I want to do God’s will, and I don’t know what that is right now. I don’t know if that’s with Garden City or if that’s being a pastor somewhere else. I want to do ministry. I want to be able to preach the Word.

On April 1, 2021, the US Department of State recognized April as National Arab-American Heritage Month to celebrate the culture of Arabs living in the US, and their contributions to society. According to the Arab-American Institute, there are currently ~3.5 million Arabs in the country, and some 93,000 Jordanians per the 2019 American Community Survey. I personally enjoy talking about language, culture, and lifestyle. It’s the world I’ve been immersed in during the last decade, as an academic, linguist, and human being. Rather than give my two cents on the topic as someone who was raised in an Arab-American household, I thought it would be better this time to consult a primary source.

This week, I asked my mother, Ms. Hala, if she’d be willing to talk about some of her experiences as an immigrant to the US. My mother was born in Amman, Jordan. She moved to the US in her early 20s and ultimately settled in Columbus, Ohio. My mother’s experiences and perspective shed light on some of the challenges and opportunities of immigration, in general, and immigration from the Middle East to the US, in particular. The following is the account of a live 90-minute interview conducted in person. I trust you will find her answers to be funny, direct, and insightful.

[For the complete archive of interviews, click here.]

You’ve been living in the US for around three decades. Can you recall any funny, strange, or awkward encounters that happened as a result of you having grow up in Jordan?

I remember when I first came to America, and I worked at the Christian bookstore. I was driving home one day. I guess I was speeding on the Old Brice Road. It was 25. It’s still 25 today. A cop flashed behind me, and I didn’t realize that he was trying to pull me over. I was new in the country, and nobody tails you like that in Jordan. The cop followed me all the way home. He gave me a ticket. He said he wouldn’t have given me a ticket if I had stopped. I did not have that realization or understanding. I was in my mid-twenties at the time. Since that day, I have not been pulled over a single time.

I also used to cut people off in conversation all the time. In Jordan, we’d have a room full of people with everybody talking at the same time, and everybody understanding everybody. I don’t know if it was a Jordan thing or just my family. I came to America, and I started realizing after cutting people off all the time, they would start looking at me funny. They would get real quiet. People were not trying to be rude, but you could tell by their body language that they did not appreciate me interrupting them. I started to have the self-awareness that “Oops, this doesn’t work.” Since then, I’ve been working on my ability to listen all these years and not interrupt people. I think I’ve come a long way.

What is one thing people don’t know about Jordan, the Middle East, or Arab culture?

Jordan is a dry country with very little rainfall. We cherish water. We don’t waste it. When I used to see people in the US leaving the faucet on hot for half an hour while rinsing and shaving, I would think “Man, people here just waste water. They let the faucet run and run.” In Jordan, we used to use a bowl to shave. You would dip the razor in and out to conserve water. There were water tanks on top of the house. If you ran out of water, you would have to call a company to come bring you more.

Another difference has to do with the church in general. As Christians in Jordan, we were a minority. Living in that environment puts you on guard. When I came to the US, I felt people were more relaxed spiritually. They didn’t have to feel what we felt and deal with some of the things we dealt with. When America is all people know, they often take for granted resources and privileges that everybody in the world doesn’t have. Freedom. Education. Job opportunities. Financial blessings.

You’ve been involved in Christian ministry for more than a decade. What inspired you to take that route?

I’ve had a desire to do ministry since I was a teenager. It was something I felt the Lord was calling me to do. After I graduated high school in Jordan, I went to Switzerland for a few months to attend a child evangelism program. When I came back to Jordan, I led children’s ministry at my local church and in other parts of the country. I loved working with the youth.

Ministry has always been a part of my heart and what I’ve wanted to do. I love to teach the Bible, and I have a heart to see people restored, discipled, and have a deeper walk with the Lord. When I came to the US, I continued on that same path, but in a different capacity, now with adults instead of children. I’ve been pastoring/teaching/reaching adults for the last 12 years.

I still have a heart for the younger generation. Even though I don’t teach children, I have a heart to see God’s purpose in their life. I believe we need to keep the younger generation at the forefront of what we do, because it will eventually come time to pass the baton on to them.

I was also busy first raising my own children. That, in itself, I felt, was a big part of my ministry. For a big portion of my life, they were the priority in everything I did.

You also work at family-owned HSU & CO Natural Health Store, a local retailer specializing in nutrition and wholistic health. What is it like to work there?

HSU is an educational ground for me. I learn from the industry, from other employees, and from the customers. I get to build relationships with people. It’s very busy, and I’m interacting with people all day long. I find it engaging to get to help people feel better health-wise. It’s been amazing to learn about all the natural herbs and medicine that enable people to depend less on pharmaceuticals. I still have so much more to learn, of course.

Some people are already fluent in the language when they migrate. For others, it takes years of full immersion before they attain proficiency. Did you have a background in English before you arrived in the US?

I started studying English in Jordan in the 1st grade. I attended a private school, called the Greek Orthodox School. Many people who went to public government schools did not receive the same quality English education. The curriculum consisted of one English class, taught in English, while everything else was in Arabic.

I didn’t speak English around family or friends, but another way I had exposure to the language was through missionaries who came to Jordan. There was this one lady I connected with from the US, in particular, who felt God wanted her to teach me how to play the organ. I got to practice my English with her, and I ended up playing the piano at church for years.

Many people don’t know that Britain influenced our culture a lot, including the school system. I remember one of my English teachers was from Britain, and he taught us an Oxford-style English. When I lived in Jordan, not everybody studied English, and not everyone who studied English spoke it well, so it wasn’t something you could take for granted. I know today there are many American schools in Jordan with American teachers, so maybe that is no longer the case.

Did you have any difficulty communicating after you first arrived?  

I think most people could understand me. If they were talking too fast, sometimes I had a hard time understanding them. The issue in communication often has to do with culture, not language. People don’t understand where you’re coming from, even if they understand the words you’re saying. Our way of thinking and mannerisms do not always translate.

Arabic is notoriously hard for English speakers to learn. Is the same true in reverse?

I think it is easier to learn English because there are a lot more words in Arabic than English. Arabic also has more complex grammar and accents. In English, when you say the word “You,” it can apply to one person, two people, or many people. In Arabic, you use a different verb form for singular and plural. Written Arabic also has a separate language and case system you have to learn alongside the spoken dialects. Arabic is a whole different ballgame. You don’t have to deal with any of that in English.

How do you keep your Arabic fresh?

I keep my Arabic fresh by talking to family members. I actually should do more than that because it’s not enough. I should be reading books in Arabic, but I read in English, and I pray in English. They say the language you pray in is the language you’re most comfortable in. Since I’ve been praying in English for a long time, I guess you can say I’m more comfortable in English at this point.

Your accent has gotten less pronounced over the years, but it’s still noticeable. Do you feel like people treat you differently when they perceive that you are a foreigner? 

I think people are sometimes afraid of what they do not understand. When people hear the accent, they have preconceived ideas about who you are. It’s not always negative. Some people are loving and welcoming, while others keep you at a distance.

I’m a very sociable person. Whether I was at my kids’ school or baseball games, I always tried to interact with people and talk to them, even if they didn’t come talk to me. That was good in a sense, but sometimes I still felt that I was an outsider and wasn’t fully included in whatever they were doing.

I will say that some people went out of their way to make us feel welcome and loved when we first came to Ohio and attended World Harvest Church. For example, we met a guy named Glenn and his wife, Marilyn. Glenn and Marilyn showed us love and grace. When you come from a different country, a different culture, speak a different language, have a strong accent, people don’t always welcome you with open arms. Now maybe people are more welcoming to immigrants, but that wasn’t always the case.

What is one of the biggest challenges of living in the US?

In the US, you have to work harder to build your community and relationships. If you don’t do that, you can quickly find yourself isolated. In Jordan, it seems that families are more close-knit, and relationships are easier to come by. Everybody is busy here, so you can easily go a long time without talking to someone. There’s also the geographic dynamic. I’m so blessed to have all my boys in the same city, at the moment. Many people I talk to have family scattered all over the US.

People here also work long really hours, and it affects social relationships. In the US, people work from the morning to the evening. In Jordan, many people used to work in the morning, take a lunch break, go home, and eat, before going back to work. You could even have a siesta [nap] if you wanted to. I don’t know if that’s how it still works. I always used to think it was weird here that people worked in the morning straight until 5. People here seemed to be having health issues, and they seemed to be really stressed out. And then eventually I became a part of that system.

Have you been involved in any extracurricular/civil society activities?

In 2015, I was selected to do leadership training for the inner city with a program called DVULI [DeVos Urban Leadership Initiative]. It was a faith-based, 15-month program that consisted of trainings, workshops, and events. The focus was on empowering leaders to work with youth, particularly in urban communities.

In the last few years, I’ve served on the committee of Young Life Ministry for the Southeast area of Columbus. Young Life seeks to reach youth in high schools through various activities, camps, and community engagement. My committee supports leaders with these efforts. Sometimes we cook food for events. We also help with event planning and execution.

You visited Jordan a few years ago. How did the country compare to your memory of it three decades ago?

The thing that stood out to me the most was the influence of other peoples. I saw the influence of people that came to Jordan from Syria and Iraq and the Gulf. They started businesses. For example, there were many more Syrian restaurants. Also, it was more crowded. Amman was as hectic as ever.

What is the thing you’ve missed the most about Jordan?

My family who still live there.

I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few words or sentences.

Favorite Jordanian food?

Falafel.

Favorite American food?

Pizza.

Favorite TV show?

I don’t have a favorite, but I like police and detective shows.

Favorite thing about Ohio?

The four seasons.

Least favorite thing about Ohio?

Slick roads in the winter.

If you had to move to another city or country, where would you go?  

Somewhere not too far away from my kids.

Does pineapple belong on pizza, yes or no?

No.

What are some of your favorite memories growing up in Jordan?

There was a surprise birthday party that my family and church threw for me when I turned 18. It was so much fun. So many young people were in attendance, and we played all kinds of games. I was not expecting it at all. They did a really good job.  

When I was teaching children’s ministry, I would go to different parts of Jordan, and the kids would all run to my car and carry my keyboard and all my teaching materials. I would play the keyboard, teach them, and do everything ministry-related. The kids were so excited to learn and to have the meeting.

Youth camps were also one of my favorites, both attending and as a leader. We had a wonderful time learning about the Lord and growing in our relationship with God. We used to go to England every summer when I was young and attend kid’s camp there. It was such a fun time.   

What are some of your favorite things about living in the US?  

I like the freedom. I like the space. The whole country is full of space and freedom. Even the roads in America are bigger. I like order. In Jordan, there could be 4 cars in 2 lanes, or even 5. The nature here is also beautiful. There’s green grass. We didn’t have green grass in Jordan–nobody learned to cut grass because there wasn’t any. Jordan is a desert. People here seem to learn how to do all kinds of stuff.

I also love meeting people from all over the world. There’s so much diversity in the US. I cherish the relationships I established while living in the US, and the community of believers I am a part of. People, in general, are kind and loving, and raising my children in the US and seeing the opportunities they received has been a blessing.

Do you think America has changed you?

In some ways, I’m more American now. My friends, community, and church family are American. I watch American TV. I speak American English. I’ve learned more about American people and culture. I’ve learned more about navigating various life challenges in the US. I’ve also learned more about myself. I’ve grown in many ways, spiritually, while living here, as well.

I find that people everywhere are similar as far as their experiences. They have the same aspirations in life. They face the same struggles. The only thing different is the language and culture.

Ask any NFL or fantasy football fan, and they will tell you that injuries are still a routine part of the game. The NFL’s most prolific player, Derrick Henry, was recently placed on injured reserve with a broken foot, and Christian McCaffrey has missed the majority of the season with a leg injury of his own. Football is a violent sport, and violence necessarily leads to injuries, especially at the highest level of competition. In 2005, Doctor Bennet Omaul is credited with discovering Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) in former football players, a degenerative brain disease attributed to repeat head trauma. The 2015 film Concussion, starring Will Smith, raised awareness on the issue, as did lab results that found the presence of CTE in the brains of former NFL players who committed suicide (e.g. Junior Seau and Aaron Hernandez). In recent years, the NFL has implemented a number of changes to make the game less dangerous and safeguard football’s status as America’s favorite sport. While there is still a lot we don’t know, it is abundantly clear that minimizing impact to the head is one surefire way to achieve this goal.

Some people hate the new, “softer” NFL (relatively to an exceptionally brutal previously era), but the new rules are here to stay, and more changes are likely to follow as data trickles in. To be sure, I’m not suggesting that football is now safe, nor am I saying that anyone should play it or watch it. What I am presenting are 7 more or less objective reasons why the NFL might be safer today than at any other point in the past. Without further ado. . .

7 Reasons The NFL Today Is Safer Than Ever

#1. Contact Rule Changes In Practice

There are now 17 games in an NFL season, not counting the playoffs. Practice, however, happens year-round. Players used to routinely hit each other hard in practice in order to prepare for in-game competition. After all, how do you get better at tackling without tackling? NFL practices today are more a simulation of in-game contact. They use tackling dummies and work on skills that translate to the game, but hard hitting is typically reserved for the game itself. I put this one as #1 for a reason. I think contact rule changes in practice is the single biggest change that has made the NFL safer due to the sheer volume of practice repetitions.

#2. Expansion Of Concussion Protocol

A few years ago, the NFL implemented concussion protocol to keep players who had just suffered a concussion off the field. The NFL hired professionals on the sideline at each game whose job is to identify potential head trauma and ensure that affected players go through proper health protocols, whether or not they want to voluntarily leave the game. Concussions in the past were referred to as “stingers,” or a “player getting his bell rung.” Oftentimes, players would re-enter the game or practice before their injury had time to heal. This put them at a much higher risk of getting a second concussion and suffering permanent brain damage.

“Second impact syndrome” is the most extreme example of this risk, upon which multiple concussions in a row can lead to death or severe brain damage. Concussion protocol is far from perfect, but keeping concussed players off the field in order to heal has been a huge step in the right direction.

#3. Advances In Helmet Technology

The NFL is constantly researching padding technology to reduce the incidence and severity of all injuries, with head injuries being foremost on the agenda. In 2018, the NFL and NFL Player’s Association agreed to ban 10 helmet models that yielded poor results in safety studies that simulated in-game impact. According to NFL.com (here), 200 players in 2017 wore helmets that are now banned, and so this measure has been another big step toward greater player safety.

#4. Contact Rule Changes In The Game

#4 has likely generated the most controversy. Replay has eliminated a lot of the human error in NFL officiating, but some fans are unhappy with the frequency of unnecessary roughness and helmet-to-helmet penalties that have been called in recent years. These changes have come as a part of the NFL’s overall effort to reduce the incidence of head trauma.

For example, you can’t lower the head to initiate helmet-to-helmet contact, a tactic that was commonplace in the old NFL. You can’t blow up defenseless players without the ball haplessly making their way down the field. You can’t tackle quarterbacks low, throw your weight on them too hard, or otherwise use force that is deemed unnecessary. Players have largely made the adjustment, and the quantity of hits like these has decreased substantially. However, there is still not an NFL game in which multiple players do not violate these rules, which goes to show just how much awareness and caution is necessary to comply.

#5. An Increased Percentage Of Touchbacks On Kickoffs

Kickoffs relatively account for more concussions than any other play in football. According to WebMD, one college study in 2015 found that kick-offs accounted for 21% of concussions, but only made up 6% of plays. The NFL did its own study, WebMD reports, which found that concussions were five times more likely to occur on kick-offs than on any other play. This is hardly surprising. On the kick-off, you have 11 grown men sprinting into 11 other grown men, all with malicious intentions.

The NFL has since changed kick-off rules in the interest of player safety. Kickers now kick-off 5 yards closer to the opposing end-zone to allow for more touchbacks, where no return is made and the receiving team starts their possession from a predetermined position on the field. The NFL also moved the predetermined position up 5 yards, which further disadvantages return teams from taking the ball out of the end zone. In addition, players on the kicking team no longer get a running start, and kicking teams cannot use bunch packages designed to isolate (and, effectively endanger) returners.

In 2003, 7.3% kick-offs ended in a touchback, whereas the record-setting figure in 2020 was 61.2% (source), evidencing that this routine aspect of the game is a lot less a problem than before. Kick-offs, which take place at the beginning of halves and after points are scored, are now largely ceremonial.

#6. A Reduction In Design Run Plays

Running plays, I reason, are somewhat more dangerous than passing plays. On a design run play, you have 11 guys collapsing on 11 guys to bring a ball carrier to the ground. Everyone on the field is engaged in physicality. On a pass play, in contrast, there are typically four or five receivers, including the running back and tight end. Many pass plays end without receivers and defenders in the secondary experiencing any contact at all (it’s illegal to make too much contact with a receiver down the field). On completed passes, the receiver is typically brought down quickly by one or two defenders, runs out of bounds, or dives to the ground, in order to avoid a major hit.

Running is still important for tactical reasons and short yardage situations, but passing has become a much more efficient way to move the ball. As a result, NFL has witnessed a steady decline in the % of run plays over the last several years. Passing plays currently average around 7 yards per attempt, whereas run plays clock in at a little above 4 yards per carry. In the early 2000s, the median % of pass plays per team was around 55%; now it is closer to 60% (source). However, the difference is much larger if you take into account “design run plays,” versus “design pass plays.” There are way more quarterbacks today who scramble than there were in past years. A lot of the “run plays” in the statistics were actually design pass plays on which the quarterback ended up taking off. Quarterbacks, physically weaker, more fragile, and more important to the team’s success than running backs, are notorious for sliding or running out of bounds to avoid contact. Unlike the average design run play, there is often no impact on quarterback scrambles.

#6 doesn’t get talked about a lot, but I think it has made measurable impact on the safety of the game.

7. New NFL Cultural Sensitivity To Head Trauma

The NFL is a fraternity. With a few notable outliers (Vontaze Burfict?), players have each others back. As ruthlessly competitive as they are, most players do not wish to physically injure their opponent. Players also know that the NFL is an iterated game. That means that you play teams more than once over the course of a career, and sometimes more than once in the same season. What goes around comes around, and how you treat others is typically how they are going to treat you.

As a result, I think you’re seeing players take more measures to protect heads, as much as possible. That means not lowering your head to tackle the opponent, which protects both the offensive and defensive party. I also see a lot of ball carriers going out of bounds or diving forward instead of absorbing contact. I don’t remember exactly how it was in the past, but it seems that players today are a lot quicker to shun contact, especially when they can achieve a similar result by giving themselves up early.

Getting tackled can also be a tactical disadvantage, because it makes a ball carrier a lot more likely to fumble. It’s often not worth absorbing a big blow just to gain a yard or two, unless the end zone or first down is within reach. . .

That’s all I got for this one! Let me know what I left out in the comments.

If you liked this post, check out [display-posts id=”488″ image_size=”thumbnail”]

The world is currently transitioning out of the largest travel drought in a generation. The threat of contagion kept borders closed, airlines operating at fractional capacity, and billions of people cooped up in tight quarters for months on end. At one low point during the pandemic, airline index $JETS had shed nearly two thirds of its value. Many people wondered whether permanent damage had been done to an industry that was forecasted to achieve an approximate $1 trillion valuation by the end of the decade. Meanwhile, supply chain issues and shocks to supply-demand economics have caused the prices of new and used cars to soar. All things considered, the global transportation industry is recovering quite nicely, but with a caveat. It is not yet clear what long-term effect the rise of communication technologies like Zoom, WhatsApp, and Square will have on business and lifestyle. Will people value physical presence enough to spend time and money when a lot of social and work-related activities can, in theory, be accomplished remotely? Will better technology and more cushy home arrangements demotivate people from traveling to attend events, visit landmarks, and see the world in person? The answer to these questions, of course, is some measure of degree, not a binary yes-or-no. What is definitive is the fact that the world is evolving at an extremely fast clip relative to the rest of human history.

This week, I interviewed someone whose life uniquely intersects with some of the themes introduced in the previous paragraph, my brother Andrew Batarseh. Andrew is a foodie, a movie buff, and a rabid sports fan. Native to Columbus, Ohio, he currently works as an itinerant leadership consultant for a college fraternity. I hope you enjoy the following account of a 60-minute interview conducted over the phone. The subject matter is as personal as it is of general interest to travel aficionados and people otherwise experiencing unusually high levels of wanderlust. You can find Andrew on Instagram @_Batarseh, where he frequently publishes pictures and videos documenting his adventures.

 Wanderlust: a strong, innate desire to rove or travel about.

Dictionary.com

Tell the people a little about yourself. 

My name is Andrew Batarseh. I am from Columbus, Ohio. I graduated from Ohio State in December of 2020 with a degree in English. I work for a Christian social fraternity called Beta Upsilon Chi, colloquially pronounced as “Bucks,” like the football team, but spelled BYX. I got involved with the fraternity in college and was offered a job as a leadership consultant after graduation. The nature of my job consists of a lot of travel, relationship building, and phone calls.

I love food, cooking, and the culture around food. One of my favorite parts about traveling is the opportunity to try different foods. I love sports, as well. I grew up around them. It’s primarily football right now at this stage in my life. I’m also a big movie buff. I have my own movie rating system. I admit that I am a bit of a movie snob.

How did you decide on English? I don’t remember you talking much about it growing up.

I changed my major four times. I went from engineering, to two majors in pre-med, and then business. A series of indecision and unfortunate events led me to decide on English, so that I could graduate in 4 and a half years, and also develop a skill that I enjoy. I like writing. I think I’m fairly good at it. Overall, I would say that my choice of major has proven to be somewhat marketable.

What is it exactly that you do?

Practically, I travel to six different universities every semester. There are 35 total represented by our organization, and I am responsible for six of them. Once every semester, I consult with their officer team in person. I also develop relationships with the members of the chapter. I do things ranging from having fun and playing football, to solving problems that the brothers are having with one another. Overall, my job description is a wide spectrum of relationship development and problem-solving.

Aside from that, I coach. There are a handful of officer positions. I coach our vice presidents. The vice presidents plan parties and manage the social engagement of each chapter. I also coach treasurers and am responsible for our budget. We have a national philanthropy called Living Water, which builds wells in Rwanda. I facilitate relationships to support that effort. We have a campaign called 10 days, where for 10 days all of our members drink only water and donate the money they would have spent on drinking other beverages.

More people today are working remotely than ever. With technologies like Zoom and Google Meet, why is it necessary for you to go to these places in person? How do you see the trade-off between efficiency, on one hand, and depth and quality, on the other?

Very simply, human connection is most robust when face to face and tangible. As much as I would like to develop deep connection via Zoom, text, and phone calls with the 230 guys that I oversee, it’s just not possible. Technology is convenient, but it isn’t as realistic or effective as spending time with people in person.

People my age or younger are trained to engage with society through instant gratification via digital media. It’s so easy to send a text message. It’s so easy to scroll for news and highlights. People are starting to lose very basic, necessary social skills. I meet a lot of young men who struggle with communication, struggle with face-to-face interaction, and have social anxiety. It’s a serious problem. While technology can be great and necessary in the world we live in, we are starting to notice many of the drawbacks.

What I’m doing is almost counter-cultural to how a lot of people I know are used to engaging with the world. I don’t know if I would use the word spiritual, but the human soul needs to be present with others. It’s healthy for us in a way that I cannot fully explain. While I’m not technically well-versed on it, I know there are experts out there who can speak about it with more detail.

What have been some of your most memorable experiences in other states? 

Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Baton Rouge is the furthest thing from Ohio in the US that I have ever experienced. It feels like every event, especially football games, is one big party. Everything revolves around food, which in some ways is similar to the Middle Eastern culture that I grew up with. It’s very flamboyant and extravagant and exciting and colorful. It’s also swampy and humid down there, weather-wise, which I don’t like.

Baton Rouge has a really interesting and unique culture that was influenced by the French. Their buildings look French. Their food is French-inspired. I think they’re the only pocket of the US where that is truly the case. In some places in Louisiana, it feels like you’re flying to a different country.

I also went to a Death Valley football game [LSU college football]. Many people say it’s the best environment in college football. I biasedly disagree being an OSU fan and having worked for the team, but it was a very cool experience. 

Have you gotten the opportunity to travel international? 

I’ve been to Israel with BYX. I’ve been to Brazil and the Dominican Republic on mission trips as an undergrad. I also went to Jordan to visit family several years ago.

What is your favorite part about traveling for work?

In reference to what I said early, getting to try new local food is one of my more enjoyable experiences. I’m a big foodie. Before starting my current job, I worked for a year at a local restaurant called Third and Hollywood. I learned about mixology, i.e., the art of making cocktails. I learned a lot about beer and wine. I also learned a lot about food from being in that environment and directing questions to the head chef.

Do you have any aspirations to get more involved in the food world?  

I have some culinary aspirations that I’m still figuring out. I’m not sure if I want to go to culinary school, work at a good restaurant, or do restaurant management. However, I’m pretty sure that is the space I want to be in in the future. I now know so much about the back-end restaurant business, with answers to questions like “How much does it cost to bring in broccoli and Brussel sprouts?” “How do you make steak here?” I still need to pinpoint what it is exactly that I love about this industry, and what route I would need to take to get me where I want to go.

What is your least favorite part about traveling for work?

I love being at home, too. I am an introvert deep down. I recover alone, and when I’m traveling, it is very difficult to get that alone time to rest up. I’m always on the go. I’m always around people. I’m always, in a way, needing to perform, by asking good questions and being very present, emotionally and mentally. It really takes a toll. I come back home and am basically incapacitated for two days until I get some rest and alone time.

Are there any special opportunities that come with a job like this? 

This one will mainly just appeal to sports fans, but I’ve been able to see a lot of college football games in person. I’ve seen a Georgia football game, an LSU football game, and an Oklahoma State football game. I would never casually fly to one of these places just to see one of these games, but being there in person with the guys from the fraternity enables me to do that. All of my college visits are planned, and football lately has been a part of that plan.

What about special challenges or temptations that accompany travel? 

It’s rare that I get a night of sleep with more than six hours in a comfortable location. Over a weeklong visit, that deficit can really add up. I don’t sleep in a hotel. I stay with the members of the organization. I’m typically sleeping on their couch or on an air mattress, or some other random location in their living room. I’m very grateful for it, but, in reality, it is a difficult place to get quality sleep. Sleep is the biggest practical/logistical challenge. Other than that, all of my expenses are covered. The only thing I need to do is make sure I am remaining within the budget for a visit. Not spending too much money on food—food is one of my biggest expenses—but I would say it’s really not that hard.

As far as temptation, the number one way it comes is when I’m really exhausted and looking for some sort of relief or distraction. The Christian guys I stay with on campus are a kind of accountability, but also the staff. There are five guys who do my role total, and we talk weekly about topics just like this one. So, on a regular basis, I’m talking with guys who understand what it’s like to visit a chapter in another state. They are the ones asking the difficult questions and making sure I keep my mental, spiritual, and emotional health a priority. There are people looking after me, and people I am looking after, as well.

You were born and raised in Central Ohio. You talked about your perception of Baton Rouge. How do some of the other places you’ve been to compare to the Buckeye State? 

People talk a little bit differently down south. The food they eat is a little bit different. I haven’t been to a city as big as Columbus yet, so size. Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Georgia—they all have a little bit of a southern twist to them. Texas is very dry. Ohio is very humid. I could list more differences, but I will end with this statement: every time I go and visit a new place I tend to appreciate Columbus a little more afterwards.

In the intro, you self-identified as a movie buff with a proprietary system for rating movies. What’s that all about?  

Basically, I rate every movie that I watch. The scale is divided into several categories, including acting, dialogue, cinematography, and sound. There’s about 10 to 12 categories total. Each category is weighted differently based on how much I value that set element of the movie. For example, acting and plot are my two heaviest categories. And then sound and cinematography make up the second tier. Each category has its own point criteria, and I’ll grade the movie based on all of these different variables. The most total points you can receive is 100.

The highest movie I’ve rated so far is a movie called Sound of Metal. It’s a movie about the journey of a heavy metal drummer who loses his hearing. I won’t say anything more about the movie because I recommend everyone reading this go and watch it. But it has a 92 overall, so it’s a pretty strict scale I have going on. Goodfellows is another 90. It’s a Martin Scorsese mafia movie. And then there’s Parasite, a Korean film by Bong Joon-ho. 91. That one is about a Korean family who is struggling in the economy and decides to get a job at a wealthy family’s house. There’s a really fun twist that I won’t disclose because you should go see it. The lowest score I’ve ever given is Good Morning Vietnam. 48. That movie didn’t age well.

To my mind, movies are not a very social activity. I think it’s noteworthy that someone with your active lifestyle would take them up as a hobby. What effect do movies have on your life? Do you see movies as a kind of complement or counterbalance?

I used to play way too much video games. Now I don’t play them nearly at all. It was an unhealthy form of escapism. As I’ve matured, movies have turned into something that I can enjoy with an appropriate amount of time. They help me to get my alone time and to experience and reflect on a world outside of my own.

My closest friends are just as in to movies as I am. Counter to your anti-social point, movies can be a very social experience for my friend group. We’ll watch a two-hour movie, and then spend just as much time talking about it afterwards. The movies become a part of our lingo. They become a part of the jokes we make. We have art on the walls from the movies we like. Movies are a big part of the fabric of our culture together.

What is one place, domestic or international, that you haven’t been to but would like to visit? 

Iceland. In the summer, when you can see the northern lights. They have beautiful green landscapes and really comfortable summer weather. I bet their cuisine is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced before. I also haven’t been to Europe–so I would pick Iceland for those reasons. The answer changes every month, but that is my answer right now.

Any pro tips or words of wisdom for living life on-the-go? Are there any special rules you follow or rituals you practice? 

I always keep my room really clean so that when I come home from travel I have an immediately restful space. As soon as I get home from travel, I immediately unpack and do laundry. Having that out the way frees up my physical and mental space so I can rest up and get back to my normal routine faster. I have white noise downloaded for the plane so that I can easily sleep. When I’m planning my visits, I don’t schedule anything past 11 PM and nothing before 9 AM. This enables me to have some sort of a morning routine and gives me a better chance at getting decent sleep. I also don’t overschedule to reserve space for when things inevitably come up or when some of the things I’m involved in take longer than expected.

I will add that this is something I want to develop more in. I’ve been living this lifestyle for maybe a year, and I’m still figuring out what processes are most effective for me to perform well.

I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few sentences.

What airline do you fly?

American Airlines, and I am a proud elite member.

Favorite city you’ve been to?
Austin, Texas.

Car you drive?

I drive a silver 2018 Mazda 3. I fly to all of the chapters, except Indiana University, which is about a 4-hour drive. 

Favorite podcast for the road?

I’ll occasionally throw on an episode of the Joe Rogan podcast.   

State with the worst drivers?

Columbus.

State with the best natural scenery?

Colorado.

Favorite quote or life motto?

Recently, it’s Proverbs 25:2, “It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out.”

Top three favorite national cuisines? 

In no particular order, Korean, Mediterranean, more specifically Middle Eastern, and probably Japanese.

What’s next on the itinerary for you, both as it relates to your work and private life?

The job I have is a two-year contract. In the meantime, I’ll continue to learn how to improve at my job and also in my personal life. There’s a strong correlation between personal growth and professional growth in the space that I’m in right now, which is pretty cool. I’m not making many plans outside of that. I’m not seeking a dating relationship or my next job right now. I’m just really focused on the present. I think next fall is when I’ll start considering more of the next steps for when I’m done with this phase of my life.