Chinese philosopher and strategist Sun Tzu (b. 544 BC) said that “In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity.” While 2020 was marred by catastrophe and inconvenience, the year also spurned growth and innovation. Businesses adapted their policies and products to accommodate an increasingly digitized world, as the work-from-home and stay-at-home models gained traction worldwide. At the individual level, people deprived of social activity and alienated from normal life took up new hobbies and creative pursuits — like cooking, gaming, working out, reading, writing, meditating, learning a language, pickleball, e-commerce and DIY projects — which meaningfully impacted their lives and those of the people around them.

One such lasting legacy came in the form of Vane Vainilla, a local cake shop based in Lima, Peru. Vane Vainilla’s founder and namesake, Vanessa Cisneros, attributes the business’s launch in February of 2021 to the stillness and quiet time of reflection she experienced during the previous year’s lockdown. During its first two years, the start-up has grown considerably, even as Vanessa doubles as a full-time Business Analyst. This week, she eagerly agreed to chat about her passion for baking, foray into the world of entrepreneurship, and plans to take her fledgling company to another level. The following is the account of a live 60-minute interview conducted remotely and translated into English. I trust you will find Vanessa’s answers and curated photos to be candid, insightful, and appetizing. You can follow Vane Vainilla on Instagram for a gallery of past work and future publications @vanevainillacakeshop

[For the complete archive of interviews, click here.]

Tell the people a little about yourself.

My name is Vanessa Cisneros. I’m 28 years old. I live in Lima, which is the capital of Peru, with my family and my cat, Tom. I currently work for a company in the organic farming and sustainability industries. In college, I studied administration with a focus on marketing, and I am responsible for all of our business marketing strategy. A fun fact about me is that I’m a big coffee drinker and I love frequenting coffee shops.  

How did your passion for baking grow?

I learned from conversations with my mom that I used to fashion small cakes with dirt when I was three years old and loved all activities that involved sweets. However, it was my grandmother’s influence that grew my love for baking most of all. When I was on vacation from school, I would stay at my grandmother’s house. My grandmother was always in the kitchen cooking up something delicious. In the evenings she would make flour cookies and cakes. When I was 9 years old, my grandmother taught me how to cook. I believe that experience motivated me to explore my love for the kitchen even further and expand on the things she taught me.

With that goal in mind, I convinced my mom to enroll me in baking classes at a local institute. I was about 12 or 13 at the time. I remember being the only young person in the program because they only let people who had finished high school enroll. However, they made an exception in my case on the condition that an adult accompanied me, and so my mom came along for the ride.

The program was for two years, but I only finished one year because it conflicted with my standard academic and volleyball schedules. In the end, I decided to prioritize those things over my love for baking. However, in that one year I learned a lot and gained enough of a foundation to experiment with various kinds of cakes that we did not get to cover.

What makes a good baker? How does baking differ from other culinary arts? 

I believe there is an inner passion that people who love to bake possess. It is the good feeling you get when you see others happy, and I believe sweets have that effect on people. When people are sad or want to celebrate, they typically like to eat something sweet like chocolate to elevate their mood. Sweets bring joy, and that joy inspires people to bake.

I also think my personality drew me to the art of baking. I’m a really creative person. I love doing unique things. For example, I love making unique cakes that can’t be replicated.

Are you yourself a sweet-tooth?

Absolutely. Two of my favorite desserts are Carrot Cake and Suspiro de Limeña, a famous Peruvian dish. It consists of a creamy, caramel-like pudding.   

You do Pilates and swim multiple times a week. How do you balance your love for sweets with your resolve to be healthy?

I believe life is all about balance. I find balance by exercising and making my consumption of sweets a special occasion. For the last five years, I haven’t consumed sugary drinks or added sugar in any other context. But I give myself the pleasure of enjoying desserts to fulfill the need I have for something sweet in my life.

When did you start Vane Vanilla?

It was a year after the pandemic, in February of 2021. Prior to then, I would only make sweets for my family and friends. I always wanted to have a small business, but I didn’t know how to do it, and I didn’t have much time to invest because I was busy studying and working. However, when the pandemic happened and everything shut down, it gave me a time of stillness at home that brought that old dream in me back to life. That was when I decided to move forward with the idea.  

What does the menu at Vane Vanilla consist of?

Every kind of cake you can imagine. I also do cupcakes and cookies.

How do you acquire business?

I work full-time during the day, so I make time at night to take orders, and I schedule deliveries on the weekend. If a delivery is too urgent for my schedule, then I am unable to fulfill it. However, I do everything in my power to attend to people and their requests. It’s been a couple of years since we started, so I have a network of past customers that will often refer their family members and friends.

I also run Facebook ads that help me advertise the business. I plan to run a campaign in the next few weeks to generate more sales.

Do you plan on growing the business?

Right now Vane Vainilla is a small local business that only accepts on-demand orders. We don’t produce at scale or keep an inventory. Later on the plan is to have a shop where people can pick up pre-made cakes. I also want to expand our digital presence. I am working on getting a website set up to promote the business that might later accept online orders to be picked up locally in Lima.   

What has been your favorite baking experience? 

There is one order I particularly enjoyed because it was super challenging. The customer asked me to make a cake for Mother’s Day. But they wanted the cake to be like a pastel del novio [wedding-style], compact and delicious with dried fruit and raisins. I had just launched Vane Vainilla and run some ads on Facebook. This was one of the first orders I received, and I had never made a cake like this before. I ended up making two, just to be safe in case something went wrong. Luckily, both cakes turned out excellently, and my family and I got to enjoy the “plan b” at home. Overall, it was a fun, memorable experience to do something I had never done before.

What about your biggest baking fail? 

My biggest baking fail happened during a time when we were unusually busy and my mind was distracted. I made some cupcakes with merengue italiano [sweetened egg whites]. The merengue italiano contains egg and so if it isn’t refrigerated it melts. I had the order ready to be delivered but I forgot to put it in the refrigerator. When I got home, I realized that the egg whites had melted one hour before the delivery. I called the customer and let them know the order was going to be delayed because I had to make it afresh. I gifted them some extra cupcakes for the inconvenience and to help hold them over.

In the end, everything turned out okay. The moral of the story is to double-check that everything is in the right place.

This is the rapid-fire round. I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few words or sentences.

Hardest baked good to make? 

Pastel de novio [Peruvian wedding cake] due to the compact texture.  

Favorite non-baked good to eat? 

Lomo saltado [traditional Peruvian stir-fry].

Spirit animal? 

A cat. Cats are independent and highly intelligent.

Ideal weather? 

Rainy and about 12 degrees Celsius [~54 degrees Fahrenheit].

Favorite Peruvian celebrity? 

Mario Vargas Llosa. He is a Nobel-winning Peruvian novelist.

Favorite foreign celebrity? 

Sameer Gadhia, the lead singer of Young the Giant.  

Country you most want to visit? 

Australia.

Dream occupation? 

Fashion designer.

Hidden talent? 

I make hand-made clothing designs.

If you could have one superpower, what would it be? 

To be able to read minds.

Something people don’t know about you? 

I’m an open book, I think they know everything!

Saying or motto you live by? 

If I don’t do it, nobody else will. My actions will ultimate determine where I end up in life. No one else can take them for me.

Where do you envision yourself in the future, both personally and professionally?

Professionally, I’d like to apply the knowledge I’ve learned from my career to transform Vane Vanilla from a local to a national business. I envision myself working for Vane Vainilla as a manager/administrator overseeing a larger operation. Personally, I’d like to travel and tour various countries. I also want to start a family.

Every year I conquer a fear. Last year I went surfing in Makaha and Los Yuyos, and it was the craziest fear I’ve conquered to date. A fear I want to conquer in the future is the fear of working for myself full-time at Vane Vainilla. Let’s hope one day I can make it a reality!

The American Midwest is one of four major census regions in the US. It consists of 12 states— including Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, and the Dakotas—and boasts a population of more than 65 million. Midwestern English, by and large, is considered a “mainstream” variety. It is the closest of all American regional dialects to “General American English” (link). If you turn on the TV, movies, news, or sports media in the US, a disproportionate number of speakers utilize speech patterns derivative of this region.

Columbus, Ohio is the second most populous city in the Midwest and has been growing at a rapid pace. In February of 2020, Amazon, the world’s largest retailer, opened a major distribution center in West Jefferson, the second of its kind in the greater Columbus area. In 2021, Columbus’s housing market was ranked fifth nationally; in 2022, it is projected to finish in the top five in combined home sales and price growth (link). In January of 2022, Intel, the S&P 500 tech giant, announced that it will be building a $20 billion semiconductor computer chip factory in New Albany. President Joe Biden, in his “State Of The Union Address,” on March 1, 2022, described the empty acres of East Columbus as “a field of dreams, the ground on which America’s future will be built” (link).

This week, I reached out to my aunt, Heather Zananiri, to get her two cents on the American Midwest, in general, and Columbus, Ohio, in particular. Mrs. Zananiri was born in Eastern Ohio, and spent stints in several Midwestern states during her childhood. Her family ultimately moved back to Ohio where she settled in the capital city. A former Ohio State student, mother of three, and local suburbanite, Mrs. Zananiri is never at a loss for words. Her perspective and pop-culture savvy shed light, not only on her experiences as a native Ohioan and mother, but on broader cultural and economic trends that have enveloped the region. The following is the account of a live 60-minute interview conducted in person. I trust you will find her answers to be blunt, funny, and insightful.

[For the complete archive of interviews, click here.]

Tell the people a little about yourself.

My name’s Heather. I was born in Dover, Ohio. I am actually from Sherrodsville, which is about 20 miles away, but they don’t really have hospitals in the boonies. I grew up in Ohio, Minnesota, and North Dakota. Growing up, we never stayed in one place longer than two years. I was a military brat, except my parents were in ministry. My dad worked for private Christian schools and would get different business opportunities. He also coached football and wanted to become a college football coach, which is why we moved to North Dakota. When I was in high school, my parents moved back to Ohio, and I’ve lived in Columbus ever since.

I have three kids—Abby, Noah, and Ethan. Abby’s a junior in high school, Noah’s a freshman in college, and Ethan’s in the 8^th grade. Having three teenage kids at once is a special kind of challenge. We just finished Ethan’s registration for high school classes, which was a bit upsetting. He’s supposed to be the baby, and now the baby’s in high school.

I’m an Office Assistant / Attendance Secretary for a local elementary school. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but it’s actually a ton of work, especially during Covid. My position is in charge of tracking all the information for quarantine and contact tracing. It’s slowed down a little to where I now just do attendance, but for a while it was really hard to keep up with everything. Rules for things were constantly changing, and we just had to run with it.

What did you do after high school?

After graduating high school, I went to The Ohio State. Unfortunately, I did not get any scholarships and had to pay for it on my own. I was dating Yousef at the time, and we had a lot of Arab friends we would hang out with every weekend. Working full-time to pay my bills, attending class, and having a social life eventually got the best of me. School got put on the backburner, and I never finished. 

At OSU, I was in between History and English. I’m a huge history buff. I love history and sociology, and was probably going to major in something along those lines. I wanted to become a teacher. It’s ironic now that I work at a school when that used to be my goal.   

What’s the most challenging thing about your job?

The hardest thing is distancing yourself from the job, because you see a lot of things happen in the front office of an elementary school. You want to fix situations with families, or get involved somehow, but you can’t. It’s especially hard because there are kids involved.

What about the most rewarding?

Being around the kids, seeing how excited they are to be at school. Being around younger kids gives you life, because they’re so full of it. I think, especially as we get middle-aged, it’s nice to see that fresh perspective in their eyes.

You got DNA tested a few years ago. Were there any surprises?  

I was 46% Irish. It was absolutely the furthest thing from a surprise, because when they see me, everyone immediately thinks I’m Irish. I knew I had Irish blood, but not quite to that extent. There were some other little surprises in there. I was like 10% Dutch ancestry, and I have no idea where that came from. It was also difficult on my dad’s side. My dad was originally from Kentucky, and they didn’t keep good records back then. However, I’ve been able to trace my mom’s side really far. My mom’s side of the family came to the US several generations ago.

I’m busy now, so I stopped doing the tracing thing, but it was really fun. I think this summer, when I have more time, it might be something I look more into. That is one plus of my job. I don’t have to work during the summers.

What is something people don’t know about Ohio? Has Ohio’s reputation at all evolved in the last decade?

Ohio’s not just corn. There are thriving urban areas that are pretty cool to visit. People don’t realize how cool places like Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincinnati are. I think Ohio is actually becoming a lot more popular, which is kind of crazy to me. I bought a shirt that says “I loved Cleveland before it was cool.” Even a podcast I listen to regularly—True Crime—just announced that they will be having their podcast festival in Columbus.

Growing up in high school, I don’t remember anything like that going on. Columbus was more a college town. Ohio State was the big thing. There wasn’t a whole lot to do outside of that, whereas now we have hockey, soccer, and the Short North. Central Ohio Performing Arts is booming. There is a whole lot more to do downtown than there used to be.

What is one thing about Ohio you would change if you could?

The weather. It’s the worst. In the last week, we’ve literally had sun. We’ve had 60 degrees. We’ve had rain. I do think seasonal depression is a problem in states like Ohio. You get to this time of year and it’s been so gray for so long. It’s depressing. You get a day like today when the sun is out, people lose their minds. It’s like a breath of fresh air. It raises your whole mood. It’s like “Aha! winter is finally over!” The winter in Ohio is nothing compared to Minnesota and North Dakota, but I still think the weather is worse.

When visitors come to town, where do you take them?

Easton. It’s an open air mall, and they’ve grown so much. They have such good food diversity. That’s our thing. When people come, we want to take them to eat somewhere nice. Short North. Just the whole cultural vibe there. I also love taking people to sporting events, especially our professional sports. Not that Ohio State isn’t great, but professional sports are just a different vibe. It’s more of an adult thing. It lets them know that Columbus has a lot of stuff going on for adults. When people come to town, I also like to take them to local distilleries. There are a lot of cool ones in the city, which make for a fun time out.

What are some advantages/disadvantages of living in the suburbs?

As far as advantages, I do feel it’s safer for the kids. They get a more wholesome, typical American family environment. But, on the flip side of that, that can be a negative, too, because you’re almost putting them in a bubble. One hard thing about the suburbs is trying to find a balance of diversity with the people your kids hang out with. The plus side is we are close enough to a city where if we want to go out at night, there is something to do. We’ve also gotten to build a lot of friendships here because you find families of the same age in same area. In a more urban/downtown environment, it’s harder to build a community centered on family.  

You have two kids in high school and one in college. How have things changed as they’ve gotten older?

I think my sweet spot was when Noah was around 7, and Ethan was around 2. I loved those ages. Then they grew up, and so many changes happened. Before you know it, these adults with teenage minds are in your house. They look an adult on the outside, because they’ve physically matured, but they’re still kids on the inside. As they get older, you want to give them more responsibilities, start treating them more like young adults, but they’re still you’re kids. Sometimes it’s been a struggle deciding what they should do for themselves, versus what we should do for them. I used to put their clothes out for them in junior high, but I learned they need to make a habit of doing these things themselves.

Yousef is definitely the more “hold-them-accountable, let-them-do-it themselves” type. He opened them bank accounts at 13, so they could learn how to manage their own money. I didn’t learn how to write a check until I was 20, because I was never taught those things, whereas I knew how to do dry wall and other blue collar tasks.

Another thing is, when your kids get older, they become a lot more independent. Now that Abby is driving, she doesn’t need me to do anything for her. Ethan still needs me obviously. He’s still a boy. But having two who don’t really need you anymore is hard. You lose a lot of time to interact with them and your sense of identity as a parent. But that’s my job, right? —-not to be needed—so they can go out in the world and not be overly dependent on anyone. However, when it happens, it hurts a little, and you have to figure out what to do next.

Which personality traits of yours do you see in them?

All of my kids are stubborn. If you have three kids with totally different personalities, and somehow they’re all insanely stubborn, you know it came from somewhere. It’s funny how personality-wise, as far as how they act and treat people, it can be one parent, yet their financial aspect can belong completely to the other one. Abby, for example, is Yousef. How she talks to people, how she acts, is so much like how he was in high school, just a girl version. But she is totally me financially. She’s the free-spirit spender, I-do-what-makes-me-happy. Noah has my personality, but he’s 100% Yousef financially, as far as saving money, investing, keeping an eye out on his spending. Ethan is yet to be determined.

We talk a lot about stocks around you, and I’m sure it drives you crazy. Financials aside, what is one company you think would be worth investing in based solely on your experience as a consumer?

If it were up to who Yousef would think I should invest in based solely on consumer habits, it would be Amazon. But their stock is outrageous. I do here you guys mention Crocs stock a lot. My kids wear Crocs. And Crocs bought the other shoe we wear around the house—Hey Dudes. The fact that we have them all around the house and that you guys always talk about it makes me think it would be a smart stock to buy.  

Do you have any business ideas where you think “This would really sell,” or “Why hasn’t this been invented yet?”

Everything is so convenient now, I can’t think of anything offhand. . . I would invent something to get the kids to wash the dishes.

What do you think future generations will say about people in 2022?

I think future generations will feel bad for us, but not in a good way. I think they will look back and see how much people were fighting and angry and loud, and feel bad that we behaved that way. It’s ridiculous that nobody can get along these days.

This is the rapid-fire round. I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few words or sentences.

Favorite drink?

Wine. Nineteen Crimes Hard Chard.

Favorite board game?

Codenames.

Ideal weather?

Sunny and 78.

Dream occupation?

Travel vlogger. Who doesn’t want to just travel around the world.

Underrated musician, actor, or athlete?

LL Cool J, because they don’t talk about him as a rapper. Or they don’t talk about him as an actor, and he’s been in a lot of stuff. At least I’ve seen all of his movies.

What appeals to you more—a hot air balloon ride or skydiving?

A hot air balloon ride, 100%. I want to be able to enjoy the view. I’m not going to enjoy the view as I’m plummeting towards it.

A word, phrase, or linguistic habit of people that you find revolting?

I hate when people put an “s” on the end of Kroger and Meijer. You don’t hear people say “Walmarts,” but you hear them say “Kroger’s’” and “Meijer’s.” I think it’s an Ohio thing.

A conspiracy theory that you suspect may be true?

I’m not a conspiracy theorist at all, but I do think Eipstein did not kill himself.

If you could live in any historical era, which would you choose?

I don’t like old eras, because I want the modern conveniences of toilets, but I would love to have been around for Martin Luther King Jr. To be able to attend one of his rallies would be a really cool experience.

Something people don’t know about you?

Most people don’t know that I sing and won a state singing competition in high school in North Dakota. It was a quartet, but still, I was one of the four. .  

Fill in the blank. If I was exiled from the US tomorrow, I hope they would send me to ____?

Jordan. Amman, Jordan, because we have family there and I love the city.

Most heartbreaking sports moment?

Oh, God. I’m a Cleveland fan—There are so many. I’d have to say in the 90s, when the Indians went to the World Series, and we lost. Not the more recent one. The 90s prepared me for the more recent loss. 

Greater probability of happening first—World War III or the Browns winning the super bowl?

I feel like World War III, unfortunately. We’ll see what comes out of everything that’s happening now. I just don’t have a good feeling about it. I feel like Putin is becoming very dictator-like, trying to rule the world.

If money wasn’t a factor, how would you spend your days?

On a beach somewhere.

Do you have any plans for life as an empty-nester / post-graduation?

I plan to sell my house and move downtown or to a cool urban area, and to travel. Now I feel like we don’t get to travel for fun anymore. Everything is for sports. I want to be able to enjoy when we travel not having to worry about if the kids turned in their homework or made sure to shut the iron off. I’d love to see all of the Middle East and Europe, specifically Ireland. I’ve never been to Ireland, but I’ve always wanted to go. I’ve heard it’s just beautiful. As a redhead, I think going back to Ireland and seeing other Irish redheads would make me happy.

On April 1, 2021, the US Department of State recognized April as National Arab-American Heritage Month to celebrate the culture of Arabs living in the US, and their contributions to society. According to the Arab-American Institute, there are currently ~3.5 million Arabs in the country, and some 93,000 Jordanians per the 2019 American Community Survey. I personally enjoy talking about language, culture, and lifestyle. It’s the world I’ve been immersed in during the last decade, as an academic, linguist, and human being. Rather than give my two cents on the topic as someone who was raised in an Arab-American household, I thought it would be better this time to consult a primary source.

This week, I asked my mother, Ms. Hala, if she’d be willing to talk about some of her experiences as an immigrant to the US. My mother was born in Amman, Jordan. She moved to the US in her early 20s and ultimately settled in Columbus, Ohio. My mother’s experiences and perspective shed light on some of the challenges and opportunities of immigration, in general, and immigration from the Middle East to the US, in particular. The following is the account of a live 90-minute interview conducted in person. I trust you will find her answers to be funny, direct, and insightful.

[For the complete archive of interviews, click here.]

You’ve been living in the US for around three decades. Can you recall any funny, strange, or awkward encounters that happened as a result of you having grow up in Jordan?

I remember when I first came to America, and I worked at the Christian bookstore. I was driving home one day. I guess I was speeding on the Old Brice Road. It was 25. It’s still 25 today. A cop flashed behind me, and I didn’t realize that he was trying to pull me over. I was new in the country, and nobody tails you like that in Jordan. The cop followed me all the way home. He gave me a ticket. He said he wouldn’t have given me a ticket if I had stopped. I did not have that realization or understanding. I was in my mid-twenties at the time. Since that day, I have not been pulled over a single time.

I also used to cut people off in conversation all the time. In Jordan, we’d have a room full of people with everybody talking at the same time, and everybody understanding everybody. I don’t know if it was a Jordan thing or just my family. I came to America, and I started realizing after cutting people off all the time, they would start looking at me funny. They would get real quiet. People were not trying to be rude, but you could tell by their body language that they did not appreciate me interrupting them. I started to have the self-awareness that “Oops, this doesn’t work.” Since then, I’ve been working on my ability to listen all these years and not interrupt people. I think I’ve come a long way.

What is one thing people don’t know about Jordan, the Middle East, or Arab culture?

Jordan is a dry country with very little rainfall. We cherish water. We don’t waste it. When I used to see people in the US leaving the faucet on hot for half an hour while rinsing and shaving, I would think “Man, people here just waste water. They let the faucet run and run.” In Jordan, we used to use a bowl to shave. You would dip the razor in and out to conserve water. There were water tanks on top of the house. If you ran out of water, you would have to call a company to come bring you more.

Another difference has to do with the church in general. As Christians in Jordan, we were a minority. Living in that environment puts you on guard. When I came to the US, I felt people were more relaxed spiritually. They didn’t have to feel what we felt and deal with some of the things we dealt with. When America is all people know, they often take for granted resources and privileges that everybody in the world doesn’t have. Freedom. Education. Job opportunities. Financial blessings.

You’ve been involved in Christian ministry for more than a decade. What inspired you to take that route?

I’ve had a desire to do ministry since I was a teenager. It was something I felt the Lord was calling me to do. After I graduated high school in Jordan, I went to Switzerland for a few months to attend a child evangelism program. When I came back to Jordan, I led children’s ministry at my local church and in other parts of the country. I loved working with the youth.

Ministry has always been a part of my heart and what I’ve wanted to do. I love to teach the Bible, and I have a heart to see people restored, discipled, and have a deeper walk with the Lord. When I came to the US, I continued on that same path, but in a different capacity, now with adults instead of children. I’ve been pastoring/teaching/reaching adults for the last 12 years.

I still have a heart for the younger generation. Even though I don’t teach children, I have a heart to see God’s purpose in their life. I believe we need to keep the younger generation at the forefront of what we do, because it will eventually come time to pass the baton on to them.

I was also busy first raising my own children. That, in itself, I felt, was a big part of my ministry. For a big portion of my life, they were the priority in everything I did.

You also work at family-owned HSU & CO Natural Health Store, a local retailer specializing in nutrition and wholistic health. What is it like to work there?

HSU is an educational ground for me. I learn from the industry, from other employees, and from the customers. I get to build relationships with people. It’s very busy, and I’m interacting with people all day long. I find it engaging to get to help people feel better health-wise. It’s been amazing to learn about all the natural herbs and medicine that enable people to depend less on pharmaceuticals. I still have so much more to learn, of course.

Some people are already fluent in the language when they migrate. For others, it takes years of full immersion before they attain proficiency. Did you have a background in English before you arrived in the US?

I started studying English in Jordan in the 1st grade. I attended a private school, called the Greek Orthodox School. Many people who went to public government schools did not receive the same quality English education. The curriculum consisted of one English class, taught in English, while everything else was in Arabic.

I didn’t speak English around family or friends, but another way I had exposure to the language was through missionaries who came to Jordan. There was this one lady I connected with from the US, in particular, who felt God wanted her to teach me how to play the organ. I got to practice my English with her, and I ended up playing the piano at church for years.

Many people don’t know that Britain influenced our culture a lot, including the school system. I remember one of my English teachers was from Britain, and he taught us an Oxford-style English. When I lived in Jordan, not everybody studied English, and not everyone who studied English spoke it well, so it wasn’t something you could take for granted. I know today there are many American schools in Jordan with American teachers, so maybe that is no longer the case.

Did you have any difficulty communicating after you first arrived?  

I think most people could understand me. If they were talking too fast, sometimes I had a hard time understanding them. The issue in communication often has to do with culture, not language. People don’t understand where you’re coming from, even if they understand the words you’re saying. Our way of thinking and mannerisms do not always translate.

Arabic is notoriously hard for English speakers to learn. Is the same true in reverse?

I think it is easier to learn English because there are a lot more words in Arabic than English. Arabic also has more complex grammar and accents. In English, when you say the word “You,” it can apply to one person, two people, or many people. In Arabic, you use a different verb form for singular and plural. Written Arabic also has a separate language and case system you have to learn alongside the spoken dialects. Arabic is a whole different ballgame. You don’t have to deal with any of that in English.

How do you keep your Arabic fresh?

I keep my Arabic fresh by talking to family members. I actually should do more than that because it’s not enough. I should be reading books in Arabic, but I read in English, and I pray in English. They say the language you pray in is the language you’re most comfortable in. Since I’ve been praying in English for a long time, I guess you can say I’m more comfortable in English at this point.

Your accent has gotten less pronounced over the years, but it’s still noticeable. Do you feel like people treat you differently when they perceive that you are a foreigner? 

I think people are sometimes afraid of what they do not understand. When people hear the accent, they have preconceived ideas about who you are. It’s not always negative. Some people are loving and welcoming, while others keep you at a distance.

I’m a very sociable person. Whether I was at my kids’ school or baseball games, I always tried to interact with people and talk to them, even if they didn’t come talk to me. That was good in a sense, but sometimes I still felt that I was an outsider and wasn’t fully included in whatever they were doing.

I will say that some people went out of their way to make us feel welcome and loved when we first came to Ohio and attended World Harvest Church. For example, we met a guy named Glenn and his wife, Marilyn. Glenn and Marilyn showed us love and grace. When you come from a different country, a different culture, speak a different language, have a strong accent, people don’t always welcome you with open arms. Now maybe people are more welcoming to immigrants, but that wasn’t always the case.

What is one of the biggest challenges of living in the US?

In the US, you have to work harder to build your community and relationships. If you don’t do that, you can quickly find yourself isolated. In Jordan, it seems that families are more close-knit, and relationships are easier to come by. Everybody is busy here, so you can easily go a long time without talking to someone. There’s also the geographic dynamic. I’m so blessed to have all my boys in the same city, at the moment. Many people I talk to have family scattered all over the US.

People here also work long really hours, and it affects social relationships. In the US, people work from the morning to the evening. In Jordan, many people used to work in the morning, take a lunch break, go home, and eat, before going back to work. You could even have a siesta [nap] if you wanted to. I don’t know if that’s how it still works. I always used to think it was weird here that people worked in the morning straight until 5. People here seemed to be having health issues, and they seemed to be really stressed out. And then eventually I became a part of that system.

Have you been involved in any extracurricular/civil society activities?

In 2015, I was selected to do leadership training for the inner city with a program called DVULI [DeVos Urban Leadership Initiative]. It was a faith-based, 15-month program that consisted of trainings, workshops, and events. The focus was on empowering leaders to work with youth, particularly in urban communities.

In the last few years, I’ve served on the committee of Young Life Ministry for the Southeast area of Columbus. Young Life seeks to reach youth in high schools through various activities, camps, and community engagement. My committee supports leaders with these efforts. Sometimes we cook food for events. We also help with event planning and execution.

You visited Jordan a few years ago. How did the country compare to your memory of it three decades ago?

The thing that stood out to me the most was the influence of other peoples. I saw the influence of people that came to Jordan from Syria and Iraq and the Gulf. They started businesses. For example, there were many more Syrian restaurants. Also, it was more crowded. Amman was as hectic as ever.

What is the thing you’ve missed the most about Jordan?

My family who still live there.

I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few words or sentences.

Favorite Jordanian food?

Falafel.

Favorite American food?

Pizza.

Favorite TV show?

I don’t have a favorite, but I like police and detective shows.

Favorite thing about Ohio?

The four seasons.

Least favorite thing about Ohio?

Slick roads in the winter.

If you had to move to another city or country, where would you go?  

Somewhere not too far away from my kids.

Does pineapple belong on pizza, yes or no?

No.

What are some of your favorite memories growing up in Jordan?

There was a surprise birthday party that my family and church threw for me when I turned 18. It was so much fun. So many young people were in attendance, and we played all kinds of games. I was not expecting it at all. They did a really good job.  

When I was teaching children’s ministry, I would go to different parts of Jordan, and the kids would all run to my car and carry my keyboard and all my teaching materials. I would play the keyboard, teach them, and do everything ministry-related. The kids were so excited to learn and to have the meeting.

Youth camps were also one of my favorites, both attending and as a leader. We had a wonderful time learning about the Lord and growing in our relationship with God. We used to go to England every summer when I was young and attend kid’s camp there. It was such a fun time.   

What are some of your favorite things about living in the US?  

I like the freedom. I like the space. The whole country is full of space and freedom. Even the roads in America are bigger. I like order. In Jordan, there could be 4 cars in 2 lanes, or even 5. The nature here is also beautiful. There’s green grass. We didn’t have green grass in Jordan–nobody learned to cut grass because there wasn’t any. Jordan is a desert. People here seem to learn how to do all kinds of stuff.

I also love meeting people from all over the world. There’s so much diversity in the US. I cherish the relationships I established while living in the US, and the community of believers I am a part of. People, in general, are kind and loving, and raising my children in the US and seeing the opportunities they received has been a blessing.

Do you think America has changed you?

In some ways, I’m more American now. My friends, community, and church family are American. I watch American TV. I speak American English. I’ve learned more about American people and culture. I’ve learned more about navigating various life challenges in the US. I’ve also learned more about myself. I’ve grown in many ways, spiritually, while living here, as well.

I find that people everywhere are similar as far as their experiences. They have the same aspirations in life. They face the same struggles. The only thing different is the language and culture.

Passion inspires people, and people who are passionate about things inspire others. I have found that whenever my friends were passionate about something—whether it was world football, real estate, or the subject matter today—they inspired me to get to know more about it, even if I had no prior experience with it. I’m not ashamed to admit that of all the subject interviews I’ve done, today’s topic is the one I knew the least about off-rip. On the flip side, that also meant I got to learn the most. Sometimes the best thing to do is to listen, and ask questions, which is what a good interviewer should be doing anyway.

This week, I reached out to my friend and former classmate, Rebecca Gilmore, to talk about “three of her favorite things”—baking, beauty, and babies. Becky is a cosmetologist, baker, business manager, and full-time mother to a spry toddler based out of Columbus, Ohio. Among her friends, Becky is known for her high energy and joyful personality. She has the uncanny gift of making anybody she’s talking to instantly feel better about life. The following is the account of a live 90-minute interview conducted in person. The interview begins with a personal narrative and progresses to address each topic in general terms. Becky’s responses stand out for their candor, insight, and experience. FYI, you can find her on Instagram @RebeccaShannan

[For a complete archive of interviews, click here.]

Tell the people a little about yourself.

My name is Rebecca Gilmore. I have been married for almost 5 years now. I have a sweet baby named James. I’m on sabbatical with James right now, which a lot of people don’t know. That’s been really nice. I love cooking. I love baking. I love all things family-oriented, especially during the holiday season. The holidays are my favorite time of year.

Take us through your journey in the world of baking and cosmetology. How did you get started, and where are you today?

Technically, I never wanted to do cosmetology. Growing up, everyone in my family—my mom, my grandma, my aunt, and my sister Brittney—really loved cosmetology. My grandma had a hair school in Trinidad, which is where my mom and dad met. My mom and dad opened a number of salons in Trinidad, and we had just opened one up in Ohio, because that was Brittney’s dream. I kind of wanted to be different, so that’s where baking came into play. In high school, I did a lot of baking, and I really enjoyed it. However, when I was a senior, my aunt ended up getting sick, and Brittney took over my aunt’s duties as the main manager of the salon. Brittney was already working full-time behind the chair. She started losing a lot of her hair from the stress. We also had about 3 employees quit around the same time. My sister needed help.

I felt bad. I was already contributing to the salon. I would clean, work the reception, and do little things here and there. I was familiar with salon life. It was the world I had grown up around. It just wasn’t my passion, and it wasn’t where I saw myself going. My dad didn’t force anything on me. He asked me if this is what I wanted to do, or whether I wanted to do baking instead. I ultimately decided that I would do cosmetology for a few years to help out Brittney at the salon, and later on in life I would do baking and pastries. I was comfortable with numbers, so taking on those additional manager duties—bills, payroll, inventory, taxes—wasn’t that big a deal.

For the next step, I completed an 1800-hour program in a year and a half to get my license as a managing cosmetologist. Meanwhile, I worked at the salon part-time, continuing my administrative role and helping to service clients. Cosmetology students would intern toward the end of the program, and so the salon is where I knocked that requirement out, as well. On many days, I would attend cosmetology school from 8 to 4. And then I would go to the salon from 4 to 9. When I graduated, the salon became a full-time thing. I worked Monday through Saturday from open around 9 AM to close. If we had a late client, we would stay until 9, 10, or even 11 PM, and so it was very common to work 12-hr+ days, 5-6 days a week.

Did you have an idea in mind early on how you were going to pursue your baking dreams?

My original plan was to go to Le Cordon Bleu in Paris. Le Cordon Bleu is a famous culinary school, and I wanted to attend their baking and pastry division. I had actually gotten scouted from a Le Cordon Bleu rep from Chicago when I was 13 or 14. He just so happened to be friends with another friend that I had baked a cake for. He couldn’t believe I was so young making these fancy cakes. He said “When you graduate, contact me, and I’d love to get you in the Chicago Cordon Bleu.” I wanted to go big or go home. I didn’t want to stay in Chicago or anywhere local. I wanted to go to Paris. I was 17 when I graduated high school. My parents wanted me to wait a few years before going to a foreign country, and that is what I intended to do.   

When you’re young, you think, “I want to get away from family. I don’t want to be local. I want to go do my own thing—to be big and bad and on my own.” As an adult now, I’m thankful for how my parents handled the situation. They didn’t squash my dreams. They were very supportive. They said they would figure out the means. But I’m also glad they didn’t allow me to do whatever I wanted at the time. I’d be so terrified knowing what life would have been like being in another country away from my family at 17 years old.

You mentioned that you started baking at a young age. Who were some of your biggest influences? 

I think my baking more so came from Grandma Suzan. My grandma was definitely a Jane of all trades. Anything she wanted to do, she would do. There were random weekends where if she wanted to bake a cake, she would bake a cake. When we lived in Trinidad, she and I would pipe frosting roses by hand versus using a bag. After we moved to the US, she would come visit for the holidays, and we would play games and decorate cute little cakes. My mom also cooked and baked with us. When I was 11 or 12, she signed me up for classes on baking at Michaels. She wanted me to keep busy during the summer. I also used to bake cheesecakes with my grandpa John. However, none of my family members ever baked professionally.

It’s quite common for people to have an interest in learning how to cook, but fewer people have an interest in learning how to bake. What inspired you to excel at both?

I’ve always loved baking a little more because everything has to be very precise. The ingredients are to the tee—every gram has to be accounted for. Whereas cooking is more “throw a little bit of this, “throw a little more of that,” and is based more on your personal senses. With baking, it’s so strict. Being off by a couple of grams here and there can really affect how something turns out. That being said, one recipe can be made several different ways just by changing butter to lard, or milk to buttermilk, or almond milk to regular milk.

As far as cooking, our mom never wanted us to be scared in the kitchen. She wanted us to grow up being able to feed our families and hold down the fort in our homes. She wanted us all to know how to cook and bake all the basic things. Even at 4, 5, 6 years old, she would have us in the kitchen, watching and helping and handing her things. I think that’s where my love for it originated—watching her do what she did—and teaching us how to feed and take care of a family.

What advice would you give someone who wants to get better at these artistic skills?

Professionally, I would say listen to your demographic. What you perceive as art or perfection can be different than what another person perceives. Really pay attention to the feedback you get from your clientele and focus on providing them what they want.

Recreationally, everyone’s art field is so different. What I view as art may be different from what you view as art. Just because it isn’t the normal or standard, that doesn’t mean it’s not good. Keep doing what you love and makes you happy, and don’t be afraid to try new things. A lot of people are used to being in their comfort zone. It’s nice to try new things because cooking and baking are not permanent, nor is hair. You can always change it.

I also think one art field translates into many art fields. Grandma Suzan, for example, would also make clothes just because she wanted do. Cosmetology, cooking, baking—and other arts, like painting, which I love—give you the opportunity to show your passion. To experiment with different things in order to achieve a certain result.

When did the salon become a permanent thing?

The salon became a forever thing when Brittney and I decided to purchase our own building instead of lease. At that point, I had been a cosmetologist for 3 or 4 years. Before my dad purchased the building, he asked Brittney and me if this is what we wanted to continue doing, and if I wanted to begin pursuing my baking and pastry dreams. By that point, I had already traveled because of cosmetology. I had been to Australia. I had been to London. I went all around the United States, doing hair and makeup. I had also become attached to my clientele. They were my family, and I couldn’t see myself leaving America to pursue a once-was dream.

A couple years ago, you welcomed your first child into the world. James will be three in February. How did that experience change you?  

Becoming a mother changed not only my personal life, but also my view on what’s important in the work-field. You want to provide for your kids and work as much as possible, but not at the expense of missing out on experiencing them. Instead of working 60-hour weeks at the salon, I opted for working fewer hours to be present with James. I also figured out how I can make more money in the hours that I was working to still be able to provide for my family. I still ordered products, did the taxes, payroll, helped with cleaning, and reorganizing, but I was not working behind the chair anymore. I stopped doing clients, and I made James the priority.

What is the hardest part about being the mother of a toddler?

The tantrums. With James having special needs, it does make things a little more exaggerated. James was diagnosed with spastic quadriplegic cerebral palsy. I always feel bad punishing him, because I don’t know if that’s his way of expressing himself. Sometimes it’s hard to figure out whether you’re crushing your child’s spirit, or rightly correcting them for doing something bad. Jamesy is a great baby, and he rarely ever has tantrums, so that makes life easy.

What about the most rewarding?

Every single day. His smile and his laughter is literally the best thing. Watching him hit every single goal that they’re working on in therapy is so rewarding.

What advice, support, or encouragement would you give to new mothers?

There’s so much advice to give to new mothers, but at the same time, I think a lot of people tell moms that it has to be done this way or that way, and that’s not correct. Every mom’s journey is going to be different, and it’s a learning process as we all go. But one thing I would recommend is getting Vitamin D. Walking outside, sitting outside, and doing outdoor activities can help with post-partum depression. I think the reason I didn’t suffer from it is because I spent a lot of time outdoors. The Vitamin D and fresh air made me feel so much better.  

I would also say to get yourself ready every morning. It’s easy to say, “I don’t have time to take a shower, to put on makeup, to work out,” because your #1 priority at that point is your child. You are their living life source, especially if you’re breastfeeding. You’re at the mercy of the child. But one thing my husband always made sure was that I took care of myself first, because you can’t pour from an empty cup. He would always tell me that. When you take care of yourself, even if it’s just 30 minutes, you feel better about life, and you can then give so much more to your child and family.  

Today, how do you balance between baking, beauty, and taking care of the little one?

Right now, with me being on sabbatical from work, I focus on James. With the holidays in full swing, it’s beauty season, so I’ve been stopping in the salon here and there to help out the girls. That’s how I get my beauty fix. The holiday season is also the best time for baking and cooking, especially traditional food—like spiral-baked ham, homemade bread, sweet bread, fruit cake, pastels, etc. Yesterday, for example, I cooked and baked almost everything for Thanksgiving—turkey, ham, green bean casserole, mashed potatoes, mac n’ cheese, stuffing, cranberry salsa—and I really enjoyed it. I love it when people eat the food I make. For James’s birthday, I’ll probably make a huge cake and cupcakes. During the holiday, I love to gift food, whether it’s an actual meal or baking item. I also make cakes and desserts throughout the year for friends’ birthdays.

When COVID hit, my husband worked from home for 7 weeks, and those were literally the 7 best weeks of my life. We got to cook and bake and work out and do whatever we wanted every day, and we got to spend so much time together with James. Right now, our weekends are constantly being pushed around all over the place, running here and there. But those 7 weeks were literally just us. It was amazing. We had no cares in the world. When my sister retired from the salon, I had no choice but to go back full-time to keep the business running. Looking back, I’m kind of sad I did it, because I made work a higher priority than spending time with James, but I know God makes everything work out for good in the end.

In general, to balance between many different passions, you have to be really precise with your free time. For example, I meal prep now. When you are intentional about it, you waste a lot less time, food, and energy in the process.

What are some of your biggest goals moving forward?

Beauty-wise, I want to get back into a more regular routine at the salon, whether that’s 1 or 2 days a week. My next big baking goal is James’s third birthday party. It’s going to be Trolls-themed. It’s going to be lots of fun colors, cotton candy type-food, and all the flavors. I really want to try an orange creamsicle cupcake for his birthday and another cupcake that involves cotton candy in some way. Since it’s not until February, I still have time to figure everything out. Whatever it is, I know it’ll be delicious.

Recently, I dabbled in the thought of opening a coffee shop. I could sell baked goods there. I think that would be really fun, but it’s a lot of work, so we’ll pin it for now.

I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few words or sentences.

Favorite beauty brand?

I don’t have one, but my two most loved ones are Too Faced and Makeup Forever.

Favorite national cuisine?

Trinidadian. But I also really like Middle Eastern food.

Favorite thing to cook or bake?

Pies. And I love to cook chile because it’s quick and easy and super delicious. I dabble into homemade pasta, as well.

Favorite comfort food?

Curried crab.

Favorite guilty pleasure?

Screamo music.

Favorite TV show?

I like anything that involves sci-fi or stupid comedy like New Girl and Stranger Things and Rick and Morty. They are like three completely different shows, and I like all three of them.

Most useless talent you have?

Organizing a fridge. I learned this one from one of my clients.

If you had to move, what city or country would you choose?

Trinidad or Colorado Springs, Colorado.

Dream job if money were not a factor?

Bartender. I think the main reason is for the people. Think of all the people you could talk to and learn their life story.

On a scale of 1-10, how much do you love Ohio?

I only love it an 8 because of friends and family. Everything else can go, starting with the weather.

Motto or saying to live by?

I have like three posters that say, “It is well with my soul.” What it means to me is that no matter what life throws at you, God will be there to bring you peace and comfort.

One thing people don’t know about you?

That I like to do contract work. I love home improvement and DIYs.

Does pineapple belong on pizza, yes or no?

Yes. A thousand percent.

On “Hot Ones,” the host Sean Evans likes to close his interviews with, “Tell me what’s new and exciting in your life.” I know this is one of your favorite phrases. So, before I let you go, tell the people what’s new and exciting in your life. 

James is starting pre-school in March. As far as the coffee shop adventures, we will see where those take me. We are also actively looking into building a new house, which is super exciting, because it would be our forever home. The new house would be an open-ranch style, which is a lot more suitable for James. I want low taxes, and I want two to five acres of land for James to run around in. I also really want a dog, but I can’t have a dog right now because of the pond in my backyard. I plan to add a very large kitchen to the new build and have all my baking dreams come true.

As diverse as the people of the world are, there are few things, in principle, that have the power to bring them together. The first example off the top of my head is sports. As I write this, there is an NFL game streaming in the background, with players of various backgrounds competing, and millions more people watching in person and on television. The language of food is another universal. In my city, you can find an ethnic restaurant for nearly every major people group in the world. I have observed that even the people most reserved toward other cultures are highly outgoing when it comes time to consume their food. The third item, which arguably belongs atop any list of its kind, is music. Music, as they say, transcends language. It also transcends the human race. Humans are not the only species to create music, and we may not even be the best at it (birdsong, anyone? lol).  While musical taste is a dime a dozen, music itself is notorious for its universal appeal.

This week, I reached out to my friend and former classmate, Makayla Briggs, to shine a light on the ancient art. Makayla is an artist, singer, and musician. Her talent and passion for music is common knowledge to everyone who knows her. (Makayla recently threw a fancy “Sad Girl Fall Party,” complete with red wine, elaborate charcuterie, and lavish desserts to celebrate the drop of Adele’s new album “30”). Makayla, in simple terms, is the ideal person to do this interview. While I’ve attended her performances in the past, this is the first time we’ve had an in-depth conversation on the topic. The following is the account of a live 90-minute interview conducted in person. The interview begins with a personal narrative and progresses to addresses a number of fascinating questions about music in general. FYI, you can find Makayla on Instagram @MBriggs2_

[For the complete archive of interviews, click here.]

Tell the people a little about yourself. 

My name is Makayla Briggs. I am 28 years old. I am the Music Director at East Side Grace Brethren Church, and I sell solar panels. I think church is where my love for music kind of sparked. Church gave me an opportunity to get more involved. I love country music, but I can say that I appreciate most music that’s made. I sing, and I play piano and the guitar.

I have a dog—Penny Lane—that I love so much. I’m a foodie. I like to host. Charcuterie is life. 

When did you realize you had a passion for music? 

I would say I realized I had a passion for God before I realized I had a passion for music. Music was my way to express my love for the Lord. As far as my passion for music, I’d say I knew when I was probably 18. After high school, I planned to play volleyball in Kentucky and study God-knows-what, because music for me at the time was still just a hobby. I was singing in praise bands, and I would write little heart-break songs, but it wasn’t a huge thing in my life. I was entertaining the idea of studying something like accounting or social work.

It wasn’t until I got out of high school that I thought, “You know what? This is for me.” And more so, I realized that worship is more my passion than music. So now, in my adulthood, I have developed this love to create and consume music.

Did you end up going to school for it?

I went to Valor Christian College and graduated with my associate’s. At Valor, I studied Praise and Worship Leadership. I worked as a music intern for a year and a half, and put together band, vocalists, and worship sets. I’m super thankful for my time there because I got to study under Lisa Brunson. She absolutely changed my life. After graduating, I moved to the teeny-tiny town of Culloden, West Virginia, to join the staff at Grace Life Church as the Creative Arts Director. The church had a space for me to stay, and I was living there while working part-time as a barista at Starbucks. After 6 months, I needed to get out. Living, working, and attending worship at the same place was suffocating. I rented an apartment nearby, while continuing to work at the church.

I left Starbucks and got a job as a receptionist at a hair salon, which I loathed. I could just not vibe with the people I worked with. I wasn’t their type of creative. It was terrible. It probably didn’t help that it was a high-end salon, from the clientele to the people who worked there. I am not a boojy person. I’m approachable and down-to-earth. I felt I stepped into a world I didn’t feel like I belonged in. My boss, however, was one of the most amazing people I have ever met. Her name was Joy, and she lived up to her name. Joy passed away recently due to cancer.

After I left the salon, I started teaching pre-school music. I was going through a difficult end to a relationship, and my pre-schoolers just brought me back to life. I’m super thankful for that season. I’m thankful, really, for my entire 2 years and 8 months in West Virginia. It was my first “big girl” job. I had a lot of learning and growing to do as a musician and worship leader, and my church family was super gracious. Pastor Wright had way more confidence in me than I had in myself. He encouraged me to learn the piano and step out in other areas.

What prompted you to leave West Virginia?

I decided in 2019 that it was time to go back to school to get my bachelor’s. I attended Ohio Christian University [OCU] and studied vocal performance. My experience at OCU was amazing. It was there that I got introduced to classical music. Prior to that, I had never really been able to genuinely appreciate it—not just to listen, but to understand. I think sometimes you just listen to listen, but it’s a difficult ballgame when you’re listening to understand music.

My advisor’s name was Doctor Nolte. He is the reason why I went to OCU, and the reason why I graduated. He was on top of everything, and just super great at his job. Dr. Nolte cared about his students and their successes. He saw us through one lesson after the other, and always made sure we were where we needed to be.

My vocal coach, Dr. Bennett, was such a talented lady. I was 27 and had been singing since I was 9, but I had never taken vocal lessons before. I found out I had been singing wrong my entire life. It wasn’t that I was singing bad, necessarily, but my technique was non-existent. I recall that when I was living in West Virginia, I would get hoarse after every single worship set. We would sing three, maybe four songs, which is not a ton. That would only be a ton if you were singing classical music, because some of those pieces are 20 minutes long. Dr. Bennett changed the way I was singing. I’ve been hoarse one time ever since, and that was because I had gotten sick and still needed to sing anyway. Dr. Bennett changed my life, for sure.

I remember attending your graduation recital in the spring of 2021. Can you tell the people about that?

Part of my graduation requirement was to do a recital. The goal of the recital was to show what I had learned during my time there and capture a piece of me, musically speaking. I performed a German piece, a French piece, and several English pieces, as well as three additional theater pieces. I love musical theater. You get to be extra. I love being extra sometimes. And I did a song that I wrote, because I write music and wanted to show the audience a little bit about me. I also I did a worship set at the end, because worship is a huge part of my life.

I’ve thought about going back to get my master’s. It’s something that I really, really want to do, but I haven’t landed yet on if that’s what I’m going to do.

In what ways has your music ability or tastes evolved over the years? 

Growing up, I wasn’t allowed to listen to secular music, but my dad, my sister and I would always watch “The Sound of Music” on Friday, and we would have pop and popcorn. The main actress, Julie Andrews, played a character named Maria. I would say that Maria is the one who got me into singing. In the movie, there is a lot of singing, and there is a lot of teaching on how to sing. Maria teaches the children that she’s nannying how to sing. They go over solfege, which is all of the notes of the key that you’re in. Do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do. Another exception was the Beatles. My dad would always have the Beatles on in his truck, but anytime we were with my mom, it was “Uplifting and encouraging 104.9 the River.”

Once I started listening to music for myself in my pre-teens, I started listening to country. I always loved country. Around middle-school-ish, I would listen to a lot of rap and R&B, because that is what was popular at the school I went to. When we played sports, that is what was on in the locker room, but I never listened to it for personal enjoyment. I only listened to it so I could sing with my friends and be a part of those moments. Throughout high school, my playlist was mostly country music.

I didn’t branch out until my early 20s. I started listening to jazz. I really like Americana now, as well. As I mentioned earlier, OCU has increased my ability to understand and appreciate classical music.

Why do you think music is so powerful? Have you ever tried to define it? 

Have I tried to define it? No. But music—without bringing God into it–music can be a pastime, but that’s not why it’s powerful. I think it’s powerful because it connects people, for one. Also, there are emotions that not everyone can put language to. And music can do that. It can do that with words. Honestly, it can do that with instruments. What’s really cool about instrumental music is that you can make of it what you want to for yourself. You can feel out what it means for you without having words to contain it. Classical music, for instance, is powerful, but it will only be powerful to you if you let it. Some people will listen to it and think, “Eh, this is really boring.” But sometimes it melts me. Sometimes you’ve got lyrics in songs, and the artist decides the direction of the song. With instrumental music, you don’t have those barriers.

Can you talk about the relationship between music ability, on one hand, and talent and hard work, on the other.  How much of it is God-given ability, and how much of it is human effort?  

The Lord gives gifts, but how we steward those is completely up to us. That whole idea, you know, that our gifts are in our hands. The question is, “What are you going to do with what’s been given to you?” I think it’s more so the hard work. You get out what you put in. Music is no different. You do have those crazy people, like Mozart. They’ll just write and write and write. They literally were just given this crazy talent. Not to say that Mozart didn’t work. He was a child prodigy. He absolutely worked at his craft, but he was just insane on another level. In general, for me, though, it’s hard work over talent. Talent sparks the interest. “I’m good at this.” From there, it’s how you take care of your gift.

When did you discover your gift?

I doubt my gift all the time. I doubt I’m as good as some people think I am. I doubt I’m as good as I think I am. But I would say the first time I recognized I had talent was when I was about 13.  

How much can a regular person expect to improve with practice? 

I’m a very optimistic person. I think that you can do whatever you want to do. People can improve as much as they want to improve. Seriously, in the world that we live in, we have all the tools at our hands. If you want to sing, cool, then sing. Go to YouTube, and type in “free singing lessons.” The voice is a different instrument from guitar and piano. It is your body. It is your self. You grow that instrument based on how much you practice, which is the same as any other instrument. But with the voice, you just start. You just start singing, and you get to take that instrument with you wherever you go.

How much has your singing improved?

It’s super hard to give a solid, concrete answer to that because singing is an art. I don’t want to use terms like “better,” or “less bad.” I can’t say, “I was at a 4, and now I’m at a 6.” I can say that my range has grown over the years. Back in April, I sang the highest I’ve ever sang in public, and I had never sung in German before. The range shows improvement with effort, and I think the whole singing in German was just my willingness to do something different. I’m big on practice. I take my instrument with me wherever I go, and I’m always singing.

With music, there’s always room for improvement, whether that’s piano, the guitar, or vocals. That is, if you challenge yourself. Some people do the same thing their entire life. I like to try new things out, and then go back and refine.

What do you do now?

Currently, I spend about 30 hours working at East Side Church. I lead worship. I choose the music and create arrangements for the songs we do on Sunday mornings. I direct our choir, band, and vocalists. I work with the children for events like the upcoming Christmas special. I’ll teach the children songs, and then I’ll meet with team members. One thing that’s really important to our church is treating people well and making sure we’re caring for others, so I have meetings with team members and members of the staff on a regular basis. That’s the part I get paid for musically. I also plan events because I love to bring people together.

Do you have anything music-wise currently in the works?

I am working on a project, which will be out next year. I’m actually working on two projects, which has been a struggle. I really want to release my second project, but I need to finish my first project first. I’m really good at starting things, but sometimes I fall short at finishing them. My first project is an EP that I’ve honestly just sat on for years. It’s not going to release itself. I’m going to release it, and when I do, I’m planning on having a little release party. There will be charcuterie and wine, and I’m going to play some of my music. The EP is called “Different.” It consists of 5 heart-breaky, you-done-me-wrong kind of songs. They’re kind of jazzy. They’re kind of country. They fall into the Indie genre, because they don’t wholly identify with a single genre. 

My second project is an album. That will have more of a country feel to it. There’s a couple songs on there that I could hear on the radio. I’m not saying they will make it to radio, but they’re country-pop enough to be mainstream. My album is a little bit more fun than my EP. Right now, I have 11 songs that are completely written, ready to be recorded. With the EP, I’m in the production stage. 

The connection between music and emotions is undeniable. Is there a genre or instrument you prefer when you’re feeling a type of way? 

I will listen to Johnnyswim, one of my favorite bands. They’re so good. I love me some Adele. I love me some Taylor Swift. She gets a bad rap, and I hate that for her. To my mind, she’s one of the most talented songwriters of our generation—and I will back that statement until I die— because she’s able to say similar things in so many different ways. She’s mastered how to call the color blue by a different name, but she’s still talking about the color blue.

When I’m sad, I also go to my keyboard. I’ll typically start writing then. I like to pour a glass of mine, get my phone, and just record whatever comes out. I’ll revisit it later, put it on paper, and try to organize it a bit, so I can make it make sense for other people.

What’s your dream job or career in the music industry? 

I would love to be an artist. I am an artist, but I would love to be a successful artist, where I’m writing my own music, and that’s paying my bills.

A lot of people like to comment on trends in the music industry over time. What stands out to you about music produced today? Where do you see the industry headed? 

I’ll be the first to say that I’m no expert in music. I’m really not. But what I notice about current music is that there’s a lot of repetition, and that’s OK. Pop music, you kind of have to catch onto—that’s why it’s pop. People want to sing along to it. I would say music today is similar to music that’s from our past. Music that’s from 50 years ago or 20 years ago, which is really not a long time. New songs are being written, but nothing new is really being talked about, because we’re the same humans that walked the earth 70 years ago. We go through similar things and feel similar emotions, and that’s what we’re going to write about and sing about.

I definitely have my dislikes in music. Some music I don’t listen to because it makes me feel terrible, and I don’t like the direction of that music. As far as the future, I can’t say that I see us going any particular way than kind of how it’s already been going.

I’m a fan of technology. Can you comment on the influence technology has had on the music industry? 

Technology has made music more accessible to us. We’re able to work on music at our fingertips, rather than getting an entire band together. We’re able to create what we need to by ourselves at our house, with no other musicians involved. There is a productiveness in that, but you lose relational aspects that music has to offer.

We might find that our music is more and more “in the box,” meaning, it’s not using real guitars or real violins. You get to press a button, and a “C” plays on the violin—or whatever. That’s kind of where we are now. I expect more of the same. The technology is going to continue to develop, as it has over the years.

I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few words or sentences.

Favorite artist? 

My favorite songwriter is Taylor Swift. My favorite artist is Kasey Musgraves.

Favorite album? 

“Diamonds” by Johnnyswim.

Favorite single? 

“Unwritten” by Natasha Bedingfield.

Favorite karaoke track? 

“We are never ever getting back together,” by Taylor Swift.

Genre, artist, album, or single you believe is overrated? 

Rap music.

Most underappreciated instrument? 

The trombone. There’s just so much life and amusement in it. It can be really powerful.

On a scale of 1-10, how much do you love Ohio? 

7 and a half. Just put an 8. I do. I do love Ohio.

What country or city would you move to if you had to leave tomorrow? 

Venice, Italy. I’ve been there, and man, it’s gorgeous. Venice for the views.

You recently threw a “Sad Girl Fall Party” to celebrate the drop of Adele’s new album. Where did you get the inspiration for that?

I heard a rumor in the summer of 2020 that Adele was working on new music that was supposed to be released last fall. The person said that “Sad Girl Fall” would be in full swing. It’s definitely not a term that I coined myself or was creative enough to come up with. I guess you can say I thought it was a very comical phrase. You have Adele, who writes sad music, and she’s dropping her music in the fall time. The music came out a year late, but since it was still in the fall, the name still works.

What’s next on the playlist for you life-wise? 

I want to challenge myself with my current job at East Side Church. I want to put myself in situations where I’m outside my comfort zone. For example, I recently started directing choir, which is not my forte. I love it. Fake it ‘till you make it is a real thing. It works in some cases, and I feel like that’s one of them. But there is preparation involved, of course. There are times where I completely lack confidence, and I’ll just attack with all the fake confidence in the world. It gets me through.

I also want to be faithful to finish my projects. I mentioned that I have an EP coming out next year. That, right now, is the next big thing that is most important to me.

We become like those we spend the most time with, whose presence occupies our mind for the greatest length of time.

It’s amazing what you can learn about someone when you give them an opportunity to talk about their past. This observation is especially true of immigrants, whose stories transcend borders, oceans, and cultural homogeneity. As it relates to the US, its historical and present-day status as a hot spot for immigrants is a well-established phenomenon. Among the biggest drivers of immigration to the US today are religious and political freedom, economic opportunity, and a desire to be closer to family. Whether you like to think of the US as a unicultural melting pot or a multicultural salad bowl, the fact remains that there are nearly as many immigrant stories as there are people.

June is Caribbean-American Heritage Month. In 2006, Congress and the White House adopted this observance in order to “celebrat[e] the rich Caribbean heritage and the many ways in which Caribbean Americans have helped shape this Nation” (source). This week, I visited Brittney Judhan, a longtime family friend and neighbor, to learn about her colorful experiences as a first-generation immigrant to the US. Brittney grew up in Trinidad & Tobago before moving to Columbus, Ohio, at age 8. After graduating high school, Brittney worked for the family-owned business—Eternal Salon & Spa—as a cosmetologist, hair stylist and business manager for more than a decade.

I hope you enjoy the following account of a fascinating 90-minute interview conducted in-person. You can catch Brittney on Instagram @my_sunshine 

Tell the people a little bit about yourself.

My name is Brittney. I’m 29 years old. I am the second oldest of three siblings. I have an older brother and a younger sister. I love the outdoors and spending time with family. I’m a semi-retired hair stylist, and I’m the best auntie in the world.

My family is from Trinidad, but I was born in New Jersey. My mom traveled to the US before I was born so that I would have American citizenship, but I was raised in Trinidad. When I was 8 years old, my family moved to Columbus, Ohio, which is where I currently live.

What was it like growing up in the Caribbean?

It was perfect. It was magical. It was great weather all the time. Sunshine, hanging out with friends and family. The food was amazing. I felt like we were always around family and always spending time outdoors. Even the school building was designed in a way that breezes were always coming in from outside. There was also a pool at the house that we would swim in.

I had one best friend, Kelcie. On the weekend, I would always go to Kelcie’s house, or she would come to my house. A lot of my memories from Trinidad were with Kelcie and her family.

Was your family indigenous to Trinidad or did they arrive there as immigrants? 

My dad’s side of the family is Indian. I don’t know the whole story, but I know there were Indian indentured laborers who came to Trinidad in the 19^th century to work on sugar plantations. There’s a holiday in Trinidad, Indian Arrival Day, that some people celebrate to commemorate the arrival of these workers. As far as my mom’s side of the family, a volcanic eruption took place on the nearby Caribbean island of Martinique, and so her grandfather and his family fled to Trinidad.

We literally have every kind of people in Trinidad. There are Indians. There are Muslims. There are people of African origin. And they all tend to hang out together in their own communities.

You moved to the US when you were 8 years old. What was that transition like? 

I remember I could not say Ohio for some reason. I thought we were moving to Hawaii. I literally told everybody I was moving to Hawaii. We have family in New Jersey, so we flew into New Jersey first, and we stayed with family for a week or two. We bought a van, and then drove from New Jersey to Ohio.

My parents picked Ohio because of World Harvest Church. They knew that this was the central location they wanted to be in. My dad had enrolled in the Bible college and he liked the fact that they had a Christian academy for the kids. When we first got to Ohio, we stayed at a motel—Econo Lodge—while we were looking for a house. It must have been for no more than a few months, but as a kid it felt like we were there for a very long time.

This whole time, I’m thinking, “We’re coming to America. Things are bigger and better than what is on the small island of Trinidad.” In Ohio, I came to a hard reality that a) we moved there in the dead of winter, so it was freezing cold. And b) we were living in a motel. I went from living in a mansion in Trinidad to a motel in the US.

I think I got my ideas about the US from TV. Watching TV, I got the impression that everything in America is bigger and better. When we were living in Trinidad, my dad would also go on business trips to the US, and he would come back with these amazing gifts from America. He would buy me and my sister the biggest teddy bears, and I would think, “This teddy bear came from America, it’s so big.”

Back in Ohio, my parents ended up buying this small house. The reason they bought it was because it was close to the church. My parents promised us we would only be living in America for three years, and then we would go back to Trinidad. And so I thought “I can handle this, it’s only three years.” My siblings and I would often joke that we moved from a mansion to a motel to a dollhouse.

After three years went by, my parents decided that we were going to stay in America until my siblings and I graduated high school. Eventually, we retired the small doll house and purchased a bigger house in Pickerington, which is when we became your neighbor. At that point, I thought, “We have space again, so living in America isn’t that bad.” I had my own room for the first time, which was amazing.

You recently got a DNA test—were there any bombshell revelations? 

I am predominantly Asian– 51% Southern Indian and 39% Northern Indian. I knew I had some Indian in me, but I didn’t realize just how much. I thought I would have more African in me, but as it turns out, I am only 2 or 3% Western and Southern African (Togo, Nigeria, Benin). I am also like 1% Italian. My mom would always say that we have European in us, talk about how she’s half-European, and I always laughed at her. “Mom, you are not any type of European. Get out of here.”

When I got the results back, I was surprised we had any European at all. I thought I would have some kind of Spanish or Latin American roots because of how her side of the family looks. My dad looks Indian, but my mom does not.

What’s it like when you go back to visit? 

It’s very weird to me, and a little bit sad because I wish I was more in touch with my Trinidad roots. I just feel a little out of place sometimes, especially because of the way I talk and not knowing my way around. But once I’m around family, I feel very happy. In Trinidad, they have a very strong accent, and I do not have an accent at all. After I speak, the locals treat me like a tourist. They don’t give me the hook-up because I’m an American. There is a lot of Trini slang that I understand, but I don’t feel comfortable using it because I don’t have the accent and I didn’t grow up there.

Our relatives still live in Trinidad, and we still have the same house we grew up in. Whenever we go back, it’s very nostalgic. I do remember when I first went back to the house, everything seemed smaller, but that’s because I was grown up. Now that I’m older and can buy my own plane ticket, I try to visit every two years for a few weeks.

What is one thing people don’t know about Trinidad? 

Literally no one knows where its located. Trinidad is off the coast of Venezuela. It is the last Caribbean island. And the equator runs straight through it, so it’s hot all year round.

People also assume that Trinidad is really touristy because it’s an island. It isn’t. The most touristy time of the year is carnival, which lasts about a week. It’s like this big long party. Trinidad’s sister island, Tobago, is a much bigger tourist destination. 

Your family is known for being really high energy. Is this more of a Judhan thing, or would you say Caribbean culture is a factor? 

It’s definitely a Caribbean culture thing. I’m almost positive that Caribbean culture is just naturally loud. We are a very energetic people and a very passionate people, I would say. We just want to enjoy life. People in Trinidad either work too hard or play too hard–it’s always one or the other.  

Your family has operated a salon in Pickerington, Ohio—Eternal Salon & Spa—for as long as I can remember. How did your family get involved in the beauty business? 

It started with my paternal grandmother. I don’t know how she got started, but I know she had a hair salon and cosmetology school in Trinidad. That’s actually how my mom and dad met—my mom attended my grandma’s cosmetology school. My dad got involved in the hair industry because of my grandma and wanted to help her further the business. They created a hair product line, Eternal Products. By the way, the name of the salon was Suzan’s Unisex Salon, which is where I got my middle name.

When my parents decided to stay in the US, they did not have in mind that they were going to open a salon in Ohio. When I was a senior in high school, I told them I want to go to cosmetology school. My dad said, “I guess we’re starting a salon because you are not going to work for anyone else.”

My dad always instilled in us an entrepreneurial spirit. He wanted us to get the most benefit out of everything that we did. I graduated high school in 2009, and we started leasing space in a strip mall. I worked as a receptionist in the salon while I was finishing hair school, and I got my license in October of 2010.

There are a lot of titles in the beauty industry–cosmetologist, esthetician, beautician, hair stylist, barber and so on. What do these different terms signify?

Cosmetologists are licensed in the general field of beauty. That includes hair, skin, and nails. Cosmetologists can do facials, waxing, manicures, pedicures; they can legally cut men and women’s hair and apply hair chemicals. Estheticians specialize in waxing and skin care. They can go into more depth than a general cosmetologist. Estheticians can apply chemical to the face, do extractions, and other more invasive therapies, but they don’t do hair or nails. Beautician is an older term for a hair stylist. If you want to be a hair stylist, you have to get a cosmetology license. There are also what we call nail technicians—people who do nails only but cannot do hair or skin. Barber is only cutting, and primarily for male clients.

What was it like to work for the family business for as long as you did, both as a cosmetologist and business manager?

I am first and foremost very grateful for the opportunity that my parents gave me, to be able to run a business successfully at a young age, and to fulfill my dreams that I’ve always wanted as a young child. However, it was very, very, very difficult and stressful. I was 17, 18, 19, when I was doing a lot of the managerial stuff that I didn’t necessarily go to school for. I learned from experience and asking questions, but getting thrown into it at a young age was very stressful and time-consuming.

I lived with my parents, as well. The business wasn’t like a switch that you could turn on and off. I worked long hours, and I would come home, and we would talk about it some more. Also, seeing what my parents gave me, I felt like I had something to live up to. They didn’t literally tell me, “Hey, you have to work hard,” but there was this untold expectation of doing well and not squandering it. This is probably why I overworked myself. Subconsciously not wanting to disappoint my parents, I worked all the time.

What led you to step away from the salon?

When I first decided to become a hair stylist, I always said “I’m going to work my butt off for 10 years. I’m going to put in as much work as possible. I’m going to do the long hours. After 10 years, I’m retiring, and maybe I will help run the salon, but no more clients.”

By 2020, at age 28, I was ready to retire. I knew that October would mark my 10-year anniversary, which is when I said that I would quit. However, my clientele at the time was really large. I didn’t feel comfortable leaving them just yet, and I was trying to find a way to make a smooth transition. When the pandemic happened, I thought it was the perfect time to step away, and that clients would be more understanding. I had also been losing my hair due to stress. I had developed alopecia. This had happened one other time when I was like 18 or 19 and had a lot of managerial and hair styling responsibilities. To sum it up, I knew I needed to cut back on the stress, and my 10-years was coming up.

I still love doing hair. It is my passion. It’s what I believe I was called to do. I enjoy it thoroughly. I still do a couple clients on the side, and I also still do hair styling for special events, like weddings. I try to help a little bit with the management of the salon—the girls can text me questions for advice on clients—but I don’t physically go into the salon and deal with people face to face.

What is one thing people don’t know about you? 

I feel like I’m very much an open book, I love to talk, and there’s almost nothing that people don’t know about me. One thing–if I say hi to you and don’t say your name, it’s because I don’t remember your name. I’m not good at remembering. If I know your name I always say “Hi, the person’s name.” For example, when I see you, I say, “Hi, Benny.”

Have you ever experienced culture shock?

I was oblivious to a lot of things when I was young, but I do remember I had a very heavy accent when I first came to the US, and people were constantly correcting the way I said things and the terminology I used. 

Besides that, going to cosmetology school was the real culture shock. My background is very sheltered, conservative, and small. Everybody at my high school knew each other, and we all pretty much had the same morals and standards. So I went from being in that kind of environment to a very wide, liberal environment. There were other young girls, there were older people seeking to reinvent themselves, but nobody who shared my beliefs and background. People would tell crazy stories about parties and things that happened on the weekend.

I remember girls didn’t initially like me in hair school. I was bubbly and happy, and they thought I was fake. But then later they got to know me, and they realized Brittney is that person. Brittney is bubbly and happy.

If you had to pick one destination to live the rest of your life, where would it be?  

A hot tropical island. I don’t know which one specifically, but I would want it to be a hot tropical island. I love being warm. Sunshine makes me happy. And I would like to be close to the water, so I can go swimming on the beach anytime I want. I also feel like the people who live there have a more laid back, hakuna matata lifestyle.

What is your biggest regret?

I regret when I was working really hard in my 20s, I never made the time for vacations. I could have done vacations and still made enough money, but for some reason I didn’t realize it at the time. 

What are some things you hope to do or achieve in the next 5-10 years?

I will say this is also a thing I’ve been struggling with lately. I feel like I want to achieve something or create something, but I don’t know what it is yet. Hopefully, within the next 5-10 years, I find something that inspires me because I don’t want to be involved with anything I’m not passionate about.

I am planning on getting married to my fiancé next April, and would like to start a family. Right now, I’m thinking I want maybe two kids, but that depends on how the pregnancy and delivery go, and what means we have available.

I want to visit South Africa. I want to visit tropical islands, like Hawaii and Fiji. I want to visit India. I’ve always wanted to visit India, but not as a tourist. I want to go to volunteer in some capacity.

I tend to live life as it comes. I’m not the best at setting goals because then I feel stress to make sure I achieve them. When opportunities come for something to happen, and it’s exciting to me, then I take action to make it happen.

I’m going to ask you several questions in quick succession. You can limit your answers to no more than a few sentences.

What is the thing you are most proud of?

My car because I bought it on my own, paid in full. It’s a Nissan Rogue. This was back in 2016.

What is your favorite dish to cook?  

Right now, it’s baked sweet potatoes with ground turkey and kale. The ground turkey and kale go on the skillet, with baked potatoes on the side.

What is your favorite dish to eat?

I don’t have a favorite dish specifically, but I love Mexican food.

What is your favorite holiday?

My birthday. Does that count? A few months ago, I turned 29. Since this was my last birthday in my 20s, I wanted it to feel fun and festive. We did a party at the park. My family and friends were there, and we played kickball. I really enjoyed it because it made me feel very childlike. I love that carefree, fun feeling.

Who is your favorite celebrity?

I don’t have one. I could care less about them… I lied! I love Celine Dion. And Adrienne Bailon-Houghton from The Cheetah Girls.

If you could go back in time and have dinner with one person, who would it be? 

It would be my grandpa John, on my mother’s side. Grandpa John was the G.O.A.T. He was my first grandparent to pass away, when I was maybe 15 or 16. He was always so lively, and the way he lived life was really inspiring. He was also a great storyteller, and I think it would be cool to listen to grandpa John’s stories one more time.